Mastodon from Columbia and Ecuador? Gomphothere?

[jikohr]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently stumbled across this and have been discussing the details with the seller. He called them Mastodon Molars, which they certainly appear to be, but the weird part is where he says they were found. Apparently they were found on the border of Columbia and Ecuador. I googled South American Mastodon and it came up with a lot of stuff on Gomphotheres and now I'm really excited but know next to nothing about Gomphotheres outside of them being a subgroup of Mastodons with funny faces.

Here's the pics he sent me, can anyone give me some insight on these?

[Lorne Ledger]

It could be Cuvieronius tropicus.  They ranged as far north as south Texas during the Pleistocene.  Neotropical Gomphothere.  I once found a tusk fragment on the Brazos river, the tusks had a groove that spiraled down to the tip on these guys.

[jikohr]

59 minutes ago, Lorne Ledger said:

It could be Cuvieronius tropicus.  They ranged as far north as south Texas during the Pleistocene.  Neotropical Gomphothere.  I once found a tusk fragment on the Brazos river, the tusks had a groove that spiraled down to the tip on these guys.

Really?

How does one tell the difference between a Gomphothere molar and another type of Mastodon?

[Harry Pristis]

1 hour ago, jikohr said:

Really?

How does one tell the difference between a Gomphothere molar and another type of Mastodon?

For images, search the Forum or google them.  You might look to the taxonomy to see that gomphotheres and mammoths are believed to be entirely different families.  This taxonomy is from Florida:

 

[jikohr]

7 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

For images, search the Forum or google them.  You might look to the taxonomy to see that gomphotheres and mammoths are believed to be entirely different families.  This taxonomy is from Florida:

 

I think there might be some confusion as to what I was asking. I know that Mammoths/elephants are different taxonomically than Mastodons/Gomphotheres.

What I was wondering is how to tell the difference between the molars within the Mastodon family between let's say an American Mastodon Molar and a Gomphothere Molar.

 

I have been looking around though. from what I understand Gomphothere molars have much more complex enamel and asymmetrical wear pattern vs American Mastodon. At least that's what I found.

 

[hemipristis]

8 hours ago, jikohr said:

I think there might be some confusion as to what I was asking. I know that Mammoths/elephants are different taxonomically than Mastodons/Gomphotheres.

What I was wondering is how to tell the difference between the molars within the Mastodon family between let's say an American Mastodon Molar and a Gomphothere Molar.

 

I have been looking around though. from what I understand Gomphothere molars have much more complex enamel and asymmetrical wear pattern vs American Mastodon. At least that's what I found.

 

I appreciate your question.  Within the past few years I have purchased 2 "South American mastodon" teeth, and would like to get a better idea of what I have

[Shellseeker]

4 hours ago, hemipristis said:

I appreciate your question.  Within the past few years I have purchased 2 "South American mastodon" teeth, and would like to get a better idea of what I have

As you might guess,  I do not find any "South American Mastodon" teeth in Florida, and so I have no knowledge of such teeth, and there seems to be few descriptions on the Internet.  There are definitely Gomphothere there.  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280989557_Gomphothere_proboscidean_Gomphotherium_from_the_late_Neogene_of_Panama

 

But in Florida,  I do find Mammoth (but no woolly types), and I have found Mammut americanus,  and more recently, I have found 2-3 types of Florida Gomphothere.

 

@Harry Pristis  has some fantastic educational pictures.  Let me use one or two.

Both un_erupted and erupted. Note the pattern.  Distinct Mountains and valleys with smooth sides, no small mountains/valleys in the valleys/mountains. Erupted teeth have a straight vertical wear pattern.

 

Now for Gomphothere:

Note the pattern. Looks more like small mountains/valleys in the valleys/mountains. Erupted teeth have both horizontal and vertical wear pattern,  and there are bumps up the sides and on the tops of the "mountains".

 

 

Are there exceptions ??? sure , on the Internet...  but when I find Gomph, I do not confuse it with Mastodon...  If @jikohr had found this tooth in Florida,  I would be unequivocal.  It is Gomph, not Mastodon.

[hemipristis]

19 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

As you might guess,  I do not find any "South American Mastodon" teeth in Florida, and so I have no knowledge of such teeth, and there seems to be few descriptions on the Internet.  There are definitely Gomphothere there.  https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280989557_Gomphothere_proboscidean_Gomphotherium_from_the_late_Neogene_of_Panama

 

But in Florida,  I do find Mammoth (but no woolly types), and I have found Mammut americanus,  and more recently, I have found 2-3 types of Florida Gomphothere.

 

@Harry Pristis  has some fantastic educational pictures.  Let me use one or two.

Both un_erupted and erupted. Note the pattern.  Distinct Mountains and valleys with smooth sides, no small mountains/valleys in the valleys/mountains. Erupted teeth have a straight vertical wear pattern.

 

Now for Gomphothere:

Note the pattern. Looks more like small mountains/valleys in the valleys/mountains. Erupted teeth have both horizontal and vertical wear pattern,  and there are bumps up the sides and on the tops of the "mountains".

 

 

Are there exceptions ??? sure , on the Internet...  but when I find Gomph, I do not confuse it with Mastodon...  If @jikohr had found this tooth in Florida,  I would be unequivocal.  It is Gomph, not Mastodon.

@Shellseeker  Thank you so much for this comprehensive and informative reply!

 

Now I have some good reading material for this rainy Saturday night!