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adguy3

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If I come across a rather large cache of various fossils in an undocumented area, do I need to report it?

More context. They are all "parts and pieces". Scutes, teeth (no sharks), jaws, bones, fins, crushing teeth etc. They were in a branch of a stream that also held the first unearthed Hadrosaurus about a mile away. They were all on the surface within about 1/2 mile from one another. Most are pretty river worn but there are also a lot of keepers and even a few potentially museum-quality pieces.

 

Should I report my findings or quietly open up a new web store- Thagomizers, etc.® (It's mostly osteoderms)

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Welcome to TFF from Austria!

 

And congrats to your find!

 

No harm getting in contact with prof people working in that area (museums, uni). Show them the site(s), they will decide, if they "want it".

Some members here will probably give you the right contact address.

 

Franz Bernhard

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Contacting the NJ State Museum, and asking about their knowledge of the area would not go amiss.

Ethically, they should be made aware of the site. They may already know about it, but you never know.

If there are really good pieces that are complete, and of museum quality, they should be shown to the Museum.

They may be common, or they may be scientifically important. Again, you don't know until you ask.

Bring samples, and be prepared to answer their questions.

You would also be wise to ask to be included in any museum activities/research in the area, should it be a new site, and scientifically important.

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Thanks for the feedback.

 

The stream runs trough several neighborhoods so there's a good chance there are boring samples and a report.

Nothing really large and no full bones. 90% are scutes, knobs, nodes, partial horn etc. 

 

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Interesting!  I grew up in Haddonfield (the town next to Cherry Hill, and where the type specimen of Hadrosaurus foulkii was found) and collected in the area during the 1980s and 90s.  I think I may know the creek you are referring to.  I collected there a few times and found mainly late Cretaceous shark teeth (mostly fairly water-worn) with a few other Cretaceous marine specimens.  But you seem to be finding mostly scutes, bones, etc., which is not typical of what I found at my site.  Maybe we are thinking of two different sites, or maybe a different layer is being exposed now than when I was in the area.  The site that I know of is listed in a published article, but even if you have rediscovered a known site it's still worth at least mentioning it to the NJ State Museum as others suggested.  

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Do you have any images to share?  

Grüße,

Daniel A. Wöhr aus Südtexas

"To the motivated go the spoils."

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On 3/26/2022 at 4:46 PM, adguy3 said:

The stream runs trough several neighborhoods so there's a good chance there are boring samples and a report.

 

Don't be fooled by location. One of the most active paleontological sites I know of around here is a neighborhood stream, and just a small outcropping in it at that, producing many impressive, scientifically important specimens. The public somehow (and thankfully) isn't aware of it, and the neighbors themselves don't even know -yet it's still an important window into the cretaceous oceans for the paleontologists who now know about it.

 

Plus, it sounds like you're not finding marine fauna at your site, which technically should be mostly marine fauna, considering it's NJ. If there are terrestrial vertebrates there, I would absolutely report it. 

Lastly, just a note on ethics in general - the reason there's a stigma around selling fossils is often because:

1) Important specimens can get sold into a private collection, and it makes researching them difficult.

2) Some individuals ravage the sites they collect from, completely depleting them. After all, "why wait when there's some money to be made?"

 

You can absolutely sell ethically, provided you avoid these two scenarios. I recently decided I may start selling the excess, common, fossils in my collection myself. In your case, I think if you were to quietly open a web store for this spot, important fossils may be lost to research. Plus, un articulated, "poor" quality terrestrial vertebrate remains won't fetch you that much money online, but they do have the potential to be well worth their weight in information.

 

I wish you the best of luck! I'm excited by the potential of your find, and I'm eager to hear more about it. Please keep us updated!

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Thank you, Jared. Very detailed and insighteful.

The store idea was mentioned half-jokingly. The crux of the question was the reporting part. 

 

It's an irrelevant question at this point. More recent findings make it a no-brainer. I think it's pretty significant site and am researching the best way to bring this forward. In my area, there are more than a few resources that I could bring the findings to.  

 

You will be hearing  more. Stay tuned...

 

"You get a pachycephalasaurus node. And you get a pachycephalasaurus node. And you..."

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Parthicus- I believe I know where you are talking about. That was my old spot. I moved upstream to an undocumented area.

 

Siphuncle- pics soon

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Sounds interesting but when it comes to new jersey fossils and cretaceous hunting, "Scutes, knobs, nodes, partial horn etc" and such are usually not what they seem to be, nj is a land of some of the most interesting concretions you'll see and that kind of fossil material here in general is usually a needle in a hay stack. You may want to share photos of some of these specimens here first to get a second opinion on them, before taking them to or contacting a museum. There are many experienced collectors and even paleontologists from nj who frequent here that can assist you.  

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Bone fragments are very common in the streams of Central New Jersey. However about 90% of them are recent in origin- deer, cow, horse, etc. The 10% that aren't recent are mostly extinct marine reptiles- primarily mosasaur and sea turtle. A very small percentage of those are other reptiles including dinosaurs. Many or most fragments of bone material are lacking identifiable features and therefore can only be ID'd as indeterminate reptile bone. Pictures will help resolve this. 

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I would not tell random people the location if I were you.  If you think it may be important, discuss it with a paleontologist.

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aplomado- Good advice as well. 

 

*TO ALL- None of the claims have been substantiated by a professional. I am not a professional. Just an amateur who may or may not have stumbled upon something really cool.

 

UPDATE: I had an amazing teacher in high school who initially got me interested in rocks, fossils and science. He's a geologist but also a member of the local area paleontology group. Even though I hadn't seen him since 1984, I reached out to him with my findings. He put me in touch with the group which meets monthly. I'm currently preparing a presentation to them with three potential discoveries- all Late Cretaceous:

  1. CLAIM #1- Cache of external parts of various beasts- scutes, ossicles, osteoderms, bony plates, horns, bone
    1. Primarily ankylosaurus, reptilian, fish, turtle, maybe other nodosaur
    2. Some hadrosaur, mammoth and other unidentified pieces
  2. CLAIM #2- ankylosaurus burial ground
    1. Tail pieces, skull pieces, osteoderms; various sizes
    2. Possibly full specimens in the river bed; several vertebrae and tail pieces were found
  3. CLAIM #3- WTF? (What The Fossil)-A new category of fossil- Medusa fossil
    1. More external body parts- all cranial or dorsal 
    2. Material is a variety of metamorphic, igneous & sedimentary
    3. Maybe from the Chicxulub Impact Event-
      1. Possibly created the perfect condition for these
        1. Ejecta into atmosphere rained back down; 1000 kph winds, 100 meter tsunamis with the initial wave at almost a mile high
        2. The impact and subsequent blast is estimated to be in excess of 10,000° F. More than hot enough to make rock.

I realize how "out there" the claim is for the Medusa Fossils. But the evidence is pretty compelling - similar structures in different sizes and mirror image.

 

I have a few hundred pieces but have spent no time cleaning and preparing to make the case. Everything has a yellowish clay mud on them. That's next. I learned quickly that posted amateur photos are NOT the best way assess. Since you are all people of ethics- I welcome you to check out my findings in person if you happen to be in the South Jersey area. Maybe even a visit to one of the the locations.

 

I'll keep updating this chain and will include the presentation when it's complete.

 

Thanks for your guidance.

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10 hours ago, adguy3 said:

I'll keep updating this chain and will include the presentation when it's complete.

Thank you, meanwhile: :popcorn: ;).

Franz Bernhard

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image.thumb.jpg.18a19f9f793d3a2a8b5883eb2714692f.jpgankylosaurus “horn”   image.thumb.jpg.18a19f9f793d3a2a8b5883eb2714692f.jpg90F46D59-7988-4192-A9A4-4D1F648B3FB6.thumb.jpeg.1269df51fede03e31b88c8d3da75dca5.jpeghadrosaur ungual (hand claw)7FFC7EE4-1AAB-4B3E-A061-8861A83572A2.thumb.jpeg.99e9106cf113cac27b09c9e72ff551b9.jpegankylosaurus phalanx (hand bone)48C3CAA8-8B3A-469D-A7E7-C4BB6CF7B250.thumb.jpeg.182957d0e9972e300bbd7f0eb1128e21.jpegankylosaurus osteodermDD05B748-3D10-4CF2-A8DC-128CA3C35E54.thumb.jpeg.5c7d1283859561db105be22bc5c89454.jpegankylosaurus armor 91DB2E8E-4A7C-455A-B170-12936287E719.thumb.jpeg.f98599595e77306809e575ef20296bfa.jpegankylosaurus scute top7D1AA376-68B2-49FD-84C0-84392D44AA34.thumb.jpeg.e77fcdd5f0a2e7c2e19cab986a22914d.jpegsmall vertebrae (ankylosaurus)777EACA2-EF9D-41DA-B584-B165C03D150D.thumb.jpeg.425357739b9b14f2bac3b8d3bf9f19fd.jpegankylosaurus scute- bottom image.thumb.jpg.2896b4bfd95572bce14b750295454e3f.jpgankylosaurus scute top 2

724B645F-4CE1-4AA6-BFC6-C3FCB09CCF1B.jpeg

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11 hours ago, adguy3 said:

I reached out to him with my findings. He put me in touch with the group which meets monthly. I'm currently preparing a presentation to them with three potential discoveries- all Late Cretaceous:

What is the name of the "group"?

The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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1 minute ago, JohnJ said:

What is the name of the "group"?

I was trying to be discreet. DM me since you’re admin. 

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41 minutes ago, adguy3 said:

7FFC7EE4-1AAB-4B3E-A061-8861A83572A2.thumb.jpeg.99e9106cf113cac27b09c9e72ff551b9.jpeg

 

 

You might have possible invertebrate fossils in this piece.  Otherwise, you are in for a tough sell convincing the paleo group of your 'unsubstantiated claims'.

 

@jpc @Troodon

 

@Carl @Boesse

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The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true.  -  JJ

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Understood. 
I only put them up to show progress. They just happen to be on deck for research. I have a ton of stuff that I have no idea what they are. Like those potential invert shells. And amongst the items, that was least researched. I’m looking forward to seeing the group’s collective brainpower at work. I’ll  open a discussion in the proper section for identifying. 
 

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Welcome to the forum, I enjoy your enthusiasm but sadly I do not see anything that I would label dinosaurian.  Your specimens look mostly like geologic forms that have some similarity to what you are describing them as but are not.    I would suggest looking at other topics to see what dinosaur bones look like especially Ankylosaurian, Hadrosaurian and eggs and compare them to yours.   I have lots posted under my collection forum and can point you to some. 

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First: Thanks for using @Coco´s mm-paper :dinothumb:.

Second: Rocks, lotsssssssss of rocks...

Franz Bernhard

Edited by FranzBernhard
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6 hours ago, JohnJ said:

 

You might have possible invertebrate fossils in this piece.  Otherwise, you are in for a tough sell convincing the paleo group of your 'unsubstantiated claims'.

 

@jpc @Troodon

 

 

@Carl @Boesse

I'm not seeing a single detail in the entire lot that suggests a fossil of any kind.

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