Is Elmer's Glue as Bad as They Say?

[Neanderthal Shaman]

About 5 years ago I took a trip out to the Green River Formation, found some nice Knightia and Diplomystus. This was long before I was on the forum, otherwise I would have made a post about it! Since then, I have found a number of shell fossils in Washington State where I live. 

 

Anyways, the commonality between them is that I coated them all in an Elmer's glue mix. This was before I knew about Butvar-76 and the like, which I still haven't bothered to try yet. The Green River Fossils consolidated well, but the shell fossils from the Lincoln Creek Formation slurped it up and didn't seem to be impacted in anyway whatsoever.

 

My concern is that the Elmer's glue mix is going to age and yellow the fossils, or worse peel off and damage them. I want to have these fossils for a long time, and maybe even pass them on one day. Should I coat the fossils in something else to prevent this outcome? Would Butvar-76 work better as a consolidate for shell fossils in a flaky, sandy matrix? If it's going to work better and protect them better, I'm willing to pony up the money to have it shipped from England. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Neanderthal Shaman
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[Bobby Rico]

@Ptychodus04 I think my good friend will have an in-site on this topic. 

[Randyw]

Paraloid is a great consolidant is cheap and available right here in the usa. Its also more stable then b-76 so it doesnt yellow as readily as b-76…

I use paraloid on all of my grf fish and a lot of my other fossils.

As i’ve never used elmers glue i can’t help with that although I do have an old fossil where it was used that is very yellowed and quite unsightly to me at least…

Edited April 20, 2022 by Randyw

[Neanderthal Shaman]

14 minutes ago, Randyw said:

Paraloid is a great consolidant is cheap and available right here in the usa. Its also more stable then b-76 so it doesnt yellow as readily as b-76…

I use paraloid on all of my grf fish and a lot of my other fossils.

As i’ve never used elmers glue i can’t help with that although I do have an old fossil where it was used that is very yellowed and quite unsightly to me at least…

 

What is your usual proportion of paraloid to acetone? I've never used a consolidant other than glue and water. I understand you have to dissolve the pellets for a little while. 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Neanderthal Shaman
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[Neanderthal Shaman]

Would a 500g bag of paraloid get a decent amount of mileage? I'm pretty strapped for cash at the moment. 

[Randyw]

Yes you do need to desolve it first. For just a coating i use 50:1 by weight. Although to be honest i just throw about the right amount of pellets into the acetone. So my percentage probably varies. I got a 1/2 pound bag and its lasted me for years. You can even use it as a glue in the right proportions. I usually coat mine with a soft bristle brush but some soak thier pieces. With a sandy matrix I’d probably brush on so the matrix doesnt dissolve. If your mixture gets too thick or dries out then just add more acetone. Or if you put too much on so it gets too shiny just wipe with a little acetone and it’ll take the shine off. I normally just brush the speciman unless the matrix is really crumbly.

 Acetone itself is pretty cheap and available in lots of places. (Walmart, home improvement stores, art stores ect) just make sure you get pure acetone.

[Norki]

1 hour ago, Neanderthal Shaman said:

Would a 500g bag of paraloid get a decent amount of mileage? I'm pretty strapped for cash at the moment. 

500g is a lot. You'll be fine with getting much less, especially if you're strapped for cash.

[Randyw]

Yep. 1/2 pound is 229g I think. And I still have like 90% of mine left….

[Neanderthal Shaman]

1 hour ago, Randyw said:

Yes you do need to desolve it first. For just a coating i use 50:1 by weight. Although to be honest i just throw about the right amount of pellets into the acetone. So my percentage probably varies. I got a 1/2 pound bag and its lasted me for years. You can even use it as a glue in the right proportions. I usually coat mine with a soft bristle brush but some soak thier pieces. With a sandy matrix I’d probably brush on so the matrix doesnt dissolve. If your mixture gets too thick or dries out then just add more acetone. Or if you put too much on so it gets too shiny just wipe with a little acetone and it’ll take the shine off. I normally just brush the speciman unless the matrix is really crumbly.

 Acetone itself is pretty cheap and available in lots of places. (Walmart, home improvement stores, art stores ect) just make sure you get pure acetone.

Thanks! Guess I'll order some. I think the GRF fish that I coated in glue mixture should probably be fine, I keep them out of the sunlight in mounts, but from now on I want to use something a little more professional.

[Ptychodus04]

In a little late to the discussion but I won’t let that keep me from chiming in. 

 

There are many varieties of Paraloid, so you want to make sure you order B72. Paraloid is superior to Butvar mainly in its hardness. Both are acceptable conservation grade materials.

 

Depending on the stability of the fossils, you may do more damage trying to remove the Elmer’s than if you just leave it alone. Consider it a learning experience.

 

Elmer’s will eventually yellow and/or begin to peel. It was never intended to be a long term conservation material. Once it begins to yellow, it is nearly impossible to remove. I would not recommend putting Paraloid on top of the Elmer’s. It won’t stop the degradation of the original application and won’t provide any consolidation benefits to the fossils due to the barrier created by the Elmer’s.

 

On future fossils, soak in a 50:1 Paraloid solution if possible. If the fossils are too fragile, light brushing is appropriate. If the fossils are extremely porous, a thicker solution may be needed.

 

A 1/2 pound bag of Paraloid will last decades for the typical hobby collector. I got through around a half pound per year.

[Neanderthal Shaman]

6 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said:

In a little late to the discussion but I won’t let that keep me from chiming in. 

 

There are many varieties of Paraloid, so you want to make sure you order B72. Paraloid is superior to Butvar mainly in its hardness. Both are acceptable conservation grade materials.

 

Depending on the stability of the fossils, you may do more damage trying to remove the Elmer’s than if you just leave it alone. Consider it a learning experience.

 

Elmer’s will eventually yellow and/or begin to peel. It was never intended to be a long term conservation material. Once it begins to yellow, it is nearly impossible to remove. I would not recommend putting Paraloid on top of the Elmer’s. It won’t stop the degradation of the original application and won’t provide any consolidation benefits to the fossils due to the barrier created by the Elmer’s.

 

On future fossils, soak in a 50:1 Paraloid solution if possible. If the fossils are too fragile, light brushing is appropriate. If the fossils are extremely porous, a thicker solution may be needed.

 

A 1/2 pound bag of Paraloid will last decades for the typical hobby collector. I got through around a half pound per year.

 

I guess what's done is done, but is there anything I can do to stave off the peeling? The yellowing I can live with, the shale is already pretty yellow, and it's been 5 years now with nothing visible yet. I keep my GRF in Riker mounts in drawers, so they're very protected from sunlight, heat, and humidity. I don't want my little guys to suffer just because I was given some bad advice back when I was a teenager first getting into fossil hunting! I've heard that the effect of Elmer's glue varies a lot, from what I've seen on the forum some people have had glue-covered specimens for decades with little to no ill effects. 

[Ptychodus04]

You’re doing the best thing for them. Keep them out of the sunlight and they will remain stable for a long time. All sorts of things have been used for stabilization material. Until the advent of indefinitely stable plastics, people had to use whatever they could get like white glues, lacquer, varnish, and shellac. All came with problems down the road. Sometimes, it takes 50 years for them to have issues, other times it’s a lot faster. I’ve spent a lot of time trying to remove old coatings on fossils that have yellowed and crosslinked. It’s not fun.

 

In the worst case scenario, you have an excuse to go back to Kemmerer and collect more fish.