I'm stumped with these two in NY

[Plantgrogu]

I've been looking at these for sometime and am stumped as to what they may be. Found in Lansing NY.

 

First up, photo's labeled #1 and #2 (hourglass shapes).  I believe the matrix to be Tully Limestone. I have the scale written on one photo as 1.5 cm x 7 cm. They are of similar size. I wondered if they could be orthocone or crinoid but am unable to find any information or photos to compare them to as they are weathered. Both have the same somewhat zig zagging cross hatching patterns.

 

Lastly, (#3) Believed to also be in Tully Limestone. I found what appears to be some type of a shell (2 cm x 3 cm) but it's shape doesn't resemble any of the gastropods, brachiopods, or bivalves in my area and I can't see any hinge. It appears that the outer shell has worn off and I think I'm looking at the internal mold? I don't want to try and prep it to reveal what may be hiding without any clue as to what it is. Thank you in advance 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Plantgrogu

[Thomas.Dodson]

You're on the right track with these. I'd guess the first to be crinoid but the weathered state makes it difficult to say. The second is definitely a brachiopod and as you suspected most of the shell is gone. There is a little bit left though (see picture). I'm not great with brachiopods but it looks similar to Pseudotrypa. @Tidgy's Dad?

[Rockwood]

8 hours ago, Plantgrogu said:

zagging cross hatching patterns.

Typical of crinoid recrystallization.

[Tidgy's Dad]

Yes, this looks like the remains of a Pseudoatrypa, which can be found in the Tully limestone, I believe. 

I can't remember if it's P. devoniana, P lineata or both that's found there. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Tidgy's Dad

[Plantgrogu]

12 hours ago, Thomas.Dodson said:

You're on the right track with these. I'd guess the first to be crinoid but the weathered state makes it difficult to say. The second is definitely a brachiopod and as you suspected most of the shell is gone. There is a little bit left though (see picture). I'm not great with brachiopods but it looks similar to Pseudotrypa.

 

Thank you Thomas for your encouragement and assistance! I'm very excited to learn about both Crinoids and Brachiopods as I find a lot of both in my area. 

[Plantgrogu]

5 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Typical of crinoid recrystallization.

Thank you so much! When they are weathered, it's hard for a newbie to figure out just what the heck I'm looking at. 

[Plantgrogu]

9 hours ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Yes, this looks like the remains of a Pseudoatrypa, which can be found in the Tully limestone, I believe. 

I can't remember if it's P. devoniana, P lineata or both that's found there. 

Thank you so very much! How exciting! I've done some research and my guides for the area list P. devoniana for this area. I'm wondering if the other valve may still be in the stone? For a newbie like myself, working to visualize and memorize the terminology & the anatomy of the brachiopods, this was a "light bulb" moment. Understanding what I'm looking at and how it's oriented in the stone can be quite the challenge! I think I'll make up some flashcards to help it all sink in. So, from what I've learned today this is my interpretation of this fossil:

Edited May 2, 2022 by Plantgrogu

[Plantgrogu]

16 minutes ago, Plantgrogu said:

looks similar to Pseudotrypa

Thank you!!!

[Tidgy's Dad]

8 minutes ago, Plantgrogu said:

Thank you so very much! How exciting! I've done some research and my guides for the area list P. devoniana for this area. I'm wondering if the other valve may still be in the stone? For a newbie like myself, working to visualize and memorize the terminology & the anatomy of the brachiopods, this was a "light bulb" moment. Understanding what I'm looking at and how it's oriented in the stone is can be quite the challenge! I think I'll make up some flashcards to help it all sink in. So, from what I've learned today this is my interpretation of this fossil:

 

The other valve is probably still there, atypids have strong shell articulation so the valves are usually found together and closed. It would probably be rather difficult to extract. 

[Plantgrogu]

1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

The other valve is probably still there, atypids have strong shell articulation so the valves are usually found together and closed. It would probably be rather difficult to extract. 

Great info! Booo on extraction though. I have been finding many of the outer shells already removed from the internal mold and see how delicate they are. I'm shocked that they survive in good condition once separated but they don't come out of the matrix unless in a very brittle shale. I've been able to extract entire outer shells by popping them out of shale which was very surprising to me. I have a nice collection of them started.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Plantgrogu

[Plantgrogu]

Thank you all for your thoughts and wisdom. You've helped me learn so much and made my day! 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Plantgrogu