Claw, clasper, squid hook?

[sjaak]

So I split a slab at home and this showed up. Unfortunately compressed and a bit splintered, but negative and positive. 

Found in Helmsdale, Scotland. Jurassic marine sediment.

It looks like a claw, but I also saw see hybodont claspers and squid hooks with this shape. Any ideas?

 

 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

No idea whether could be, but it would be absolutely massive for a squid hook: the ones I've seen are typically on more than a few millimetres. Rather, I'm thinking this looks like a fish bit? @Fossildude19

[Fossildude19]

Rotated and cropped:

 

 

 

I'm thinking fish, as well, but this does not look familiar to me.

[Mahnmut]

Never knew that claspers could fossilize, interesting fact, now I want one for my collection.

Edited May 7, 2022 by Mahnmut
clarification

[sjaak]

1 hour ago, Mahnmut said:

Never knew that claspers could fossilize.

Apparently, they can. Here is a thread:

 

I find it hard to see a resemblance and if it is fishy then I wonder which part. The fossil is crumbly, but it clearly has a sharp tip. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by sjaak

[Ludwigia]

Definitely a squid hook (Onychites) IMHO.

[sjaak]

Thanks, Ludwigia, I see the resemblance.must have been a big one!
 

https://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/collections/3034/objects/1029/onychites-sp-a-squid-tentacle-hook-fossil

 

 

[Ludwigia]

7 minutes ago, sjaak said:

Thanks, Ludwigia, I see the resemblance.must have been a big one!
 

https://www.nzmuseums.co.nz/collections/3034/objects/1029/onychites-sp-a-squid-tentacle-hook-fossil

 

 

You're welcome. We're always extremely happy when we find one of these down here. They're quite rare as you can imagine.

[sjaak]

https://bioone.org/journals/acta-palaeontologica-polonica/volume-58/issue-4/app.2012.0020/Large-Onychites-Cephalopod-Hooks-from-the-Upper-Jurassic-of-the/10.4202/app.2012.0020.full

 

Looks exactly the same!

 

Edited May 7, 2022 by sjaak

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

30 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

Definitely a squid hook (Onychites) IMHO.

 

I've seen plenty of squid hooks (have various in my collection, either disarticulated as stomach contents or still articulated as tentacles), but would never have thought they could reach this size... Must've been an impressive beasty! 

Edited May 7, 2022 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

[abyssunder]

Mega-onychites would be a good fit.

[rocket]

fantastic one, Squid-hook, great find! Sometimes you can find one in this size in Holzmaden-Area (Posidonia-slate), but they are rare in this size.

 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

3 minutes ago, rocket said:

fantastic one, Squid-hook, great find! Sometimes you can find one in this size in Holzmaden-Area (Posidonia-slate), but they are rare in this size.

 

They must be, as I don't think I've ever seen one in any of the great collections/museums on the Posidonia Shale...  Not that I've been keeping an eye out for it, of course, me being much to distracted by all the marine reptile fossils. But I was quite surprised...! 

[rocket]

yes, this is incredible size

check e.g. bbm:978-3-8274-3083-0/1.pdf (springer.com) (Tafel B, Fig. 1), this can reach 3 cm and a little bit more

and Fossiler Tiefseeboden (museum-zurholt.de), Fig. 11c-k, Page 9

up to 50 mm....

Riegraf_Werner_Lörcher_1984_DerPosidonienschiefer_.pdf, pg. 165..., up to 7 cm...

Edited May 7, 2022 by rocket

[sjaak]

I also found this 20 cm belemnite at the same site. Could these be related?

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

2 hours ago, sjaak said:

I also found this 20 cm belemnite at the same site. Could these be related?

 

Hard to say, as it all depends on species how you'd extrapolate body size. But I'd say the squid hook needs to come from an even bigger specimen.