Unknown Fossil at base of Great Pyramid

[James1234]

I noticed this fossil in the limestone at the base of the great pyramid whilst on holiday. Reading online there are quite a few Nummulites in the rock of the pyramids themselves but not much information on larger finds and unlike the quarried and transported stone of the pyramids themselves this was seemingly part of the natural giza rock forming base around the structure. Im very much an amateur at this but out of pure interest I was wondering what you all may think of it?

[rocket]

perhaps, if this are fossils, burrows

[Mark Kmiecik]

It looks like a rib cage to me, but I'm not that good at vertebrates. Wait for more knowledgeable folks to chime in. Nice find.

[Tidgy's Dad]

I would also think ichnofossils of some kind.  

[Top Trilo]

I originally thought ichnofossils too but when I enlarged the image it looks like bone.

[rocket]

I know there was Thalassinoides-Type published, but cannot find the paper yet. They are known from some places where the nummulite limestone occurs.

When you look at "(PDF) Facies associations and geometry of nummulite bodies: Example of the Kesra Plateau in Central Tunisia (NW Kairouan) (researchgate.net)" , page 288, there is a mark for tunesian ones. "Nearly" the same

[JohnJ]

@James1234 do you have any other photos?

[Fossildude19]

Cropped, rotated, and contrasted:

 

[FranzBernhard]

I don´t think this is a trace fossil. The contrast between fossils and matrix is so strong, they seem to be completely different materials.

Bone, rib cage as already mentioned... Does not look like bone, so the only option remaining is dugong ribs?

Franz Bernhard

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by FranzBernhard

[James1234]

1 hour ago, JohnJ said:

@James1234 do you have any other photos?

Sadly not. I only thought to post on here after leaving

 

 

The grouping was about 1m long by 40cm wide. I would say in my limited experience my first thought was it looked a lot like fossilised bone more than trace fossils but I'm not qualified to say with any expertise. The surrounding stone had no similar impressions anywhere that I could see. It very much stood out as a singular imperfection.

 

The fossil in question is very close to the base of the Great Pyramid between it and the base of the unfinished black pyramid on the East side so I was surprised it hadn't been noticed before. On more reading the quarries for the core Nummulite rich limestone appear to have been in the immediate vicinity in the same Mokattam formation that the base containing this fossil is made of. Only the fine limestone facing was brought in from afar.

[jpc]

This looks very much like bone.  I think the pyramid rocks are Eocene in age, but feel free to correct me if needed.  They are certainly marine based on the nummulityes. These could be early whale bones.  Great find.

 

[Jared C]

I have heard that Egypt is famous for whale skeletons, what a location to find them though! The amount of history you  found yourself in!

[James1234]

4 minutes ago, Jared C said:

I have heard that Egypt is famous for whale skeletons, what a location to find them though! The amount of history you  found yourself in!

Yes makes the pile of rocks in front the it seem positively neonatal!

Wadi al Hittan was somewhere I really wanted to visit this trip but I sadly didn't have the time.

[JohnJ]

This is an interesting part of the photo that appears to show the exterior of the dark inclusion.

 

@Boesse

[JBkansas]

Could it be petrified wood?

 

Not sure it looks like the whale skeletons from nearby:

 

Maybe if there's a geoloc on the picture someone can find the location and get more pics.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3198337/Stunning-images-reveal-fossilised-remains-whales-middle-desert-sea-floor-long-lost-ocean.html

Edited May 26, 2022 by JBkansas

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

When I was in Egypt for the first time, back in what was probably the early 1990's, on a trip my mother gave me as a present for graduating primary school, we also visited Giza and the Great Pyramid/Pyramid of Khufu/Cheops. Leaving the site, I spotted some brown "tubes" with distinctly fibrous texture embedded in and contrasting with the bedrock of the plateau. I was instantly convinced these were fossil bones, of which I had seen plenty in museums, and had even collected some in the field at that time (with a national geological society that had various Dutch palaeontological collection managers as its members), and notified the guide of my find. However, he just shrugged it off. Me, being just 12 years old at the time in a pre-digital age, didn't have a camera to record the find. So I've always been wondering and am thrilled to see someone else has finally made a similar discovery - if not exactly the same as I did all those years ago! 

[Top Trilo]

I'm curious to see what Robert says about it since he recently worked on a paper about a primitive Egyptian whale. I'm wondering if anything can be done with the fossil i.e. given to a museum or if it will have to sit there unprotected. Luckily there's not much weathering that happens in Cairo, at least not with water. @James1234 How long has it been since you took that picture?

[ScottBlooded]

I’ll be perfectly honest, after reading the title I clicked your post super quickly assuming this had to be someone with a reeeeaaally wild theory. Which I kind of get a kick out of. I couldn’t have been more surprised that you were being totally straight up, you found a fossil at the base of one of the great pyramids. That’s so so profoundly cool.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

34 minutes ago, Top Trilo said:

I'm curious to see what Robert says about it since he recently worked on a paper about a primitive Egyptian whale. I'm wondering if anything can be done with the fossil i.e. given to a museum or if it will have to sit there unprotected. Luckily there's not much weathering that happens in Cairo, at least not with water. @James1234 How long has it been since you took that picture?

 

I doubt that the fossil can be extracted, seeing as Giza is a UNESCO world heritage site and this makes any alterations extremely difficult. And while weathering by rain, floods and frost might be it if the question, those caused by exposure to sun and eolean forces (in particular, sand-blasting) would take place. The site is also heavily visited. And while there's a rotational scheme to decide which pyramid can be visited at any one time, I'd say the biggest risk therefore is abrasion from all the visitor unwittingly walking over it.

 

Also, I suspect the photograph will have been taken over tbe last couple of months, if not last month, seeing as the Khufu Pyramid is currently visitable...

[Top Trilo]

26 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

I doubt that the fossil can be extracted, seeing as Giza is a UNESCO world heritage site and this makes any alterations extremely difficult.

I was hoping something could be done. Even a tent and plaque would be better. 

[James1234]

3 hours ago, Top Trilo said:

I'm curious to see what Robert says about it since he recently worked on a paper about a primitive Egyptian whale. I'm wondering if anything can be done with the fossil i.e. given to a museum or if it will have to sit there unprotected. Luckily there's not much weathering that happens in Cairo, at least not with water. @James1234 How long has it been since you took that picture?

I took the photo around 9am yesterday local time. 

Weathering-wise I'd be more concerned about tourists walking on it as Im sure many do every day. 

Im sure any protection/ remote possibility of excavation would have to be liaised with the state Im sure as its almost part of the pyramid itself and certainly part of the protected area.

I find it incredible that it was first exposed 4000 odd years ago and is still there to this day

[Anna Marie]

8 hours ago, FranzBernhard said:

I don´t think this is a trace fossil. The contrast between fossils and matrix is so strong, they seem to be completely different materials.

Bone, rib cage as already mentioned... Does not look like bone, so the only option remaining is dugong ribs?

Franz Bernhard

 

This article has a pic of it saying it is dugung 

https://www.neverendingfieldtrip.com/pyramids-of-giza/

[James1234]

20 minutes ago, Anna Marie said:

This article has a pic of it saying it is dugung 

https://www.neverendingfieldtrip.com/pyramids-of-giza/

The Photo from the article. Certainly looks similar!

You may have cracked it 

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

5 hours ago, Anna Marie said:

This article has a pic of it saying it is dugung 

https://www.neverendingfieldtrip.com/pyramids-of-giza/

 

Wow! So local guides (or some of them at least) are aware of the fossils! And by the sound of such a specific attribution, those fossils have been studied as well...! You managed to crack the riddle that's been at the back of my brain for about thirty years now...!

 

9 hours ago, Top Trilo said:

I was hoping something could be done. Even a tent and plaque would be better. 

 

If the remains are indeed commonly found in the plateau and guides are aware because they have been studied, then I doubt they're considered important enough to be protected (that is, until it's too late and almost all have disappeared). A tent, or barrier at least, and plaque doesn't seem too intrusive, though, so would expect this to be a realistic option in case the state would want to protect these fossils (with a simple barrier being a better solution than a tent due to its lower visual impact, which is of equal importance to the sites status as UNESCO world heritage - thence the ever-encroaching suburbs around Giza being a problem). But I think the state is not that interested in preserving these fossils. After all, they're not dinosaurian, and even belong to an extant mammal, which just doesn't attract masses in the same way their ancient monuments do...

[FF7_Yuffie]

I had no idea fossils were in the pyramid rocks, and I think so ... brilliantly cool.