Jbenton Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Need help from Florida experts. Found this snorkeling near blind pass beach in Florida. Probably 4 ounces. Really nice cross hatch. What animal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Mastodon ? TFF Check this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbenton Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 Being the crosshatch is acute, this implies mammoth I assume. @Harry Pristiswhat do you think? I always respect your opinion. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 @digit What do you think about this photo? The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbenton Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 I’m guessing it’s a section where one of the layers broke and discolored once it fossilized? Ever seen anything like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jbenton said: I’m guessing it’s a section where one of the layers broke and discolored once it fossilized? Ever seen anything like it? Yes, also I am unsure that the lines are Mammoth. You see what my trailing quote says... Let's see what more reasonable members think. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 That's what I saw. Obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbenton Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 So what animal could it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 If the angles are obtuse and not acute than that should push for mastodon over mammoth, no? I don't remember where we decided gomphotheres came down on this spectrum but I don't believe the blackened surface necessarily indicates an enameled strip. Were it to be enamel then that would strongly indicate gomphothere. I guess I'd be in the Mammut americanum group on this. https://floridapaleosociety.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Fossil-Species-of-Florida-1-2002-Mammut-Americanum.pdf Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 37 minutes ago, Jbenton said: So what animal could it be? It is more important to get an identification correct than fast. We are attempting to figure it out. Here is a thread that lays out the possibilities. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Trilo Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Which angle do you measure? Two intersecting lines that aren't perpendicular will always make acute and obtuse angles. 1 “If fossils are not "boggling" your mind then you are simply not doing it right” -Ken (digit) "No fossil is garbage, it´s just not completely preserved” -Franz (FranzBernhard) "With hammer in hand, the open horizon of time, and dear friends by my side, what can we not accomplish together?" -Kane (Kane) "We are in a way conquering time, reuniting members of a long lost family" -Quincy (Opabinia Blues) "I loved reading the trip reports, I loved the sharing, I loved the educational aspect, I loved the humor. It felt like home. It still does" -Mike (Pagurus) “The best deal I ever got was getting accepted as a member on The Fossil Forum. Not only got an invaluable pool of knowledge, but gained a loving family as well.” -Doren (caldigger) "it really is nice, to visit the oasis that is TFF" -Tim (fossildude19) "Life's Good! -Adam (Tidgy's Dad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 The tangential might be a way to describe it. Outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 2 hours ago, digit said: If the angles are obtuse and not acute than that should push for mastodon over mammoth, no? 48 minutes ago, Top Trilo said: Two intersecting lines that aren't perpendicular will always make acute and obtuse angles. As @darrow has demonstrated, there is a significant degree of inaccuracy based on exactly where on the tusk, you mark the lines. However, this is the way I read this chart. On the left we have 4 Mammoth species congregating around 75-80 degrees, on the right, 4 Mastodon/Gomph types congregating around 125-130 degrees. Mammoth is "closer" to a 90 degree angle than is Mastodon. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 3 hours ago, Jbenton said: I’m guessing it’s a section where one of the layers broke and discolored once it fossilized? Ever seen anything like it? Yes, This is Ryhchotherium, a Gomphothere from Florida... Is your "discolored" area , as you suggest a broken section of "Bark" enamel that surrounds the tusk" OR a strip of enamel down the side of the tusk that implies a different species? For now, I am agreeing with Digit that it is the former. and that makes your find Mammut americanum, American Mastodon The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullStrong Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Here's a good image of mammoth Schreger lines. The Schreger angles on fossil in question appear close to 90* by my untrained eye. 1 “Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum" Descartes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 I agree with gomphothere if there is a clean margin to the enamel. Here's my example: 2 1 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 11, 2022 Share Posted June 11, 2022 Here is another comparison photo: Question is the edge broken or a clean margin as Harry says... 3 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbenton Posted June 11, 2022 Author Share Posted June 11, 2022 The crosshatch is no greater than 90 degrees assuming I’m looking at this right. The pics are not as clear as in person. Doesn’t this imply mammoth vs gomp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbenton Posted June 12, 2022 Author Share Posted June 12, 2022 9 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Yes, This is Ryhchotherium, a Gomphothere from Florida... Is your "discolored" area , as you suggest a broken section of "Bark" enamel that surrounds the tusk" OR a strip of enamel down the side of the tusk that implies a different species? For now, I am agreeing with Digit that it is the former. and that makes your find Mammut americanum, American Mastodon @Shellseekerthe darkened area is on the concave side which would imply surrounds the tusk, not the outside. See attached pic. Does this help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 15 hours ago, Jbenton said: the darkened area is on the concave side which would imply surrounds the tusk, not the outside. See attached pic. Does this help? I have speculated above attempting to reach an identification. The Schreger lines seem to indicate mammoth, however I have never seen anything remotely similar to the straight line enamel on Mammoth. I find your explanation unconvincing. The only similarity I can recall is on the concave side of Gomphothere tusks. I can not help you further. As in numerous other attempts at Identification, you need to draw your own conclusions based on your interpretation of available data. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullStrong Posted June 12, 2022 Share Posted June 12, 2022 The darker portion of this fossil is on the inside of the tusk, and in my opinion, is the pulp cavity of the tusk that simply fossilized differently than the rest of the ivory, it is not enamel. Here's an image of a elephant tusk cross section with pulp cavity: 3 “Dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum" Descartes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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