Amateur hunters in the Alberta Badlands

[DinoBirdNerd]

Hello! New user here... 

My boyfriend and I have been doing some exploring around the badlands here in Alberta, and lately we've been mostly wandering around north of Tolman. We've found a few cool fossils, but we're both having a hard time putting all our research into practice. Trying to learn the different formations and identifying the coal seams, but not having much luck. I've read some of the documents that describe the scollard formation, but when I'm climbing the hills I honestly have no idea what I'm looking at. Is there anyone in Alberta that frequents these areas that can offer some insight or tips? If you're looking to pass on some knowledge, or even have us tag along on a hike or two, that would be amazing. 

The picture is some of my best surface finds so far. 

[Vacationgirl]

I’m in the same boat.  Wandering around the badlands and have no idea what Layers are what. 

[Troodon]

Very general but it's something.

 

 

Scollard locations with occurrence by Tyrrell.   Paper said 3.5km north of Tolman Bridge

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://archive.org/details/biostratigraphyp00russ&ved=2ahUKEwiujNDnoav4AhXiK0QIHc44AswQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw37OpYg9Yv4EHg3ZNDwwXQt

 

[DinoBirdNerd]

20 hours ago, Troodon said:

Very general but it's something.

 

 

Scollard locations with occurrence by Tyrrell.   Paper said 3.5km north of Tolman Bridge

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://archive.org/details/biostratigraphyp00russ&ved=2ahUKEwiujNDnoav4AhXiK0QIHc44AswQFnoECAMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw37OpYg9Yv4EHg3ZNDwwXQt

 

 

Thanks for the info! I've done a lot of reading about the locations and where the formations are, but I think I have a hard time knowing if I'm too high or too low. For example, the images describe the layers, but how do I know which layers are what when I'm looking at them. I do find quite a few bone fragments and sometimes tooth fragments, but I'm never sure if I'm searching at the right elevation. The horsethief canyon pic is just an example, but when I look at those layers, how do I identify which is coal seam 9, 10 or 11?

[Troodon]

Can be difficult without someone who is experienced in the area.  Ive collected in the Horsethief but with a local that was experienced in that deposit.    The fragment you are finding are a clue and indicate you are either on the layer or close to it if washed down from a higher one.   Its prospecting and learing the better spots not easy.

[dingo2]

The main way to know which formation you're in is to look at the 11,12 and 13,14 coal seam groups. If you're north of Tolman,  you're in upper HCF unless you are very, very high up in the canyon (in which case it's the Scollard). In many places the 13,14 coal seams are not even visible. The upper HCF is known to be less fossiliferous than the lower HCF, and the Scollard is even more sparse than three upper HCF.

[Agatized Deinonychus]

Here I am, confused again! I crossed Canada off my list as another country with draconian laws against fossil hunters. I thought Canada only allow permits to paleontologists?

 

I'm not a fan of all these overreaching laws! There are better ways to go about it. Look at the American space industry. It is thriving after opening up the industry to the outside world.

[Ludwigia]

8 hours ago, Agatized Deinonychus said:

I thought Canada only allow permits to paleontologists?

 It varies extremely from province to province. You can collect practically undisturbed in Ontario at many sites, although you of course need to ask permission on private property and in active quarries and pits. Alberta residents are allowed to keep their finds as long as they are not rare and report them, but you're not allowed to take them out of the province. I think the East coast is rather restricted, but as far as I know, B.C. and Quebec also present no great problems for hobby collectors.

[Agatized Deinonychus]

2 minutes ago, Ludwigia said:

 It varies extremely from province to province. You can collect practically undisturbed in Ontario at many sites, although you of course need to ask permission on private property and in active quarries and pits. Alberta residents are allowed to keep their finds as long as they are not rare and report them, but you're not allowed to take them out of the province. I think the East coast is rather restricted, but as far as I know, B.C. and Quebec also present no great problems for hobby collectors.

Thank you! Being a USA resident, I can take them home most places not named Alberta? I guess what I read was about Alberta and I thought it was all of Canada. Whew! I wish we could get a standard for the whole industry. This stuff is so confusing all over the USA and the entire world. It is complete bonkers

[Ludwigia]

1 hour ago, Agatized Deinonychus said:

I wish we could get a standard for the whole industry.

 Fossil collecting is mostly not an industry in my opinion (unless you happen to have a business where you are exploiting and selling legally), but rather either a nonprofit scientific undertaking for the public interest or an enlivening hobby. In any case, you just have to do your homework and pay attention to the local, state and national laws. There is unfortunately no way around that and such activities cannot be standardized worldwide or even from state to state.

[FossilDAWG]

BC also does not allow fossils to leave the province without a permit.  This applies to invertebrates as well as vertebrate fossils.

 

Don

[Troodon]

11 hours ago, Agatized Deinonychus said:

Here I am, confused again! I crossed Canada off my list as another country with draconian laws against fossil hunters. I thought Canada only allow permits to paleontologists?

 

I'm not a fan of all these overreaching laws! There are better ways to go about it. Look at the American space industry. It is thriving after opening up the industry to the outside world.

 

I also will add that you do see Dinosaur material and beautiful Ammonites sold in the States at shows and sometimes online.  All of these have proper disposition numbers that allow them to be legally sold outside the province of Alberta. 

[jpc]

8 hours ago, Troodon said:

 

I also will add that you do see Dinosaur material and beautiful Ammonites sold in the States at shows and sometimes online.  All of these have proper disposition numbers that allow them to be legally sold outside the province of Alberta. 

I know the ammolite mines have permission to mine and export the colorful ammonites, but I have not heard of legally exported dino bone from Alberta.  

[Troodon]

3 minutes ago, jpc said:

I know the ammolite mines have permission to mine and export the colorful ammonites, but I have not heard of legally exported dino bone from Alberta.  

All the Ammonites from Canada Fossils sold at shows have a disposition number.   There are a number a number of dealers over the years that have sold material in Tucson, all the items that I saw had disposition numbers.  I know one of the key the sources and have seen the papers and photos from him.  The Canadian fossil police were very visible at Tucson a couple of years ago checking the credentials. 

[jpc]

9 minutes ago, Troodon said:

All the Ammonites from Canada Fossils sold at shows have a disposition number.   There are a number a number of dealers over the years that have sold material in Tucson, all the items that I saw had disposition numbers.  I know one of the key the sources and have seen the papers and photos from him.  The Canadian fossil police were very visible at Tucson a couple of years ago checking the credentials. 

Yeah, this I know, but Alberta dinosaurs??  

[Troodon]

Just now, jpc said:

Yeah, this I know, but Alberta dinosaurs??  

Yes and some nice items.   The material that I am aware of was dispositioned at the time the law was changed and those fossils in collections were grandfathered.  Visited one person years ago and he had lots of material with dispositions.

[DinoBirdNerd]

On 7/9/2022 at 8:01 PM, Agatized Deinonychus said:

Here I am, confused again! I crossed Canada off my list as another country with draconian laws against fossil hunters. I thought Canada only allow permits to paleontologists?

 

I'm not a fan of all these overreaching laws! There are better ways to go about it. Look at the American space industry. It is thriving after opening up the industry to the outside world.

 

As a resident of Alberta, I can clarify what our laws are here. We are not allowed to dig for anything, but any fossils that are sitting on the surface is allowed to be collected, as long as it's on private or public land (not allowed to take anything from provincial or national parks). And although you are allowed to take surface fossils home, you are technically the caretaker of that fossil on behalf of the province of Alberta. You cannot sell it or take it out of the province (without applying for a permit).