Harry Pristis Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 10 hours ago, fossillarry said: I am petty sure that the horse tooth is the lower right p3/4 from Nannippus aztecus and is at least three quarters worn. I believe the tooth fragment is from an upper tooth of a rhino, possibly the hypocone part of the metaloph with the crochet, but this is a halfhearted guess. I think the OP's horse tooth is a ringer for the illustration of an N. aztecus right m1 or m2, "BB" on pp. 292, in Hulbert. Here's an image of a left m1 or m2, based again on "AA" on pp. 292. 2 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 4 hours ago, Shellseeker said: So Daniel, I agree with Larry. I strongly believe that the enamel on the margins of the Rhino teeth is thinner than equivalent enamel on either gomphothere or mastodon. I would like to see examples that others provide to refute this theory. Additionally, Rhino enamel has Vertical Hunter_Schreger Bands which all other Florida Fossil land mammals lack. These 2 characteristics should be more than sufficient for you or me or anyone to differentiate Rhino tooth enamel. I went hunting Wednesday.... I found a couple of chips of tooth enamel, as I usually do. These chips are tiny... I used a macro lens on my cellphone. Can you identify the mammal ? I see the vertical Hunter-Schreger bands, so it’s gotta be Rhino, right? I’ll have to take a closer look at mine, but I don’t believe any of the enamel fragments I have are have the vertical HS bands. However they’re definitely thin enamel pieces. 1 Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 (edited) Thank you Harry! Maybe soon enough I’ll have a complete N. Aztecus set of teeth Edited July 15, 2022 by Meganeura Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 5 hours ago, Shellseeker said: So Daniel, I agree with Larry. I strongly believe that the enamel on the margins of the Rhino teeth is thinner than equivalent enamel on either gomphothere or mastodon. I would like to see examples that others provide to refute this theory. Additionally, Rhino enamel has Vertical Hunter_Schreger Bands which all other Florida Fossil land mammals lack. These 2 characteristics should be more than sufficient for you or me or anyone to differentiate Rhino tooth enamel. I went hunting Wednesday.... I found a couple of chips of tooth enamel, as I usually do. These chips are tiny... I used a macro lens on my cellphone. Can you identify the mammal ? Jack, I took this picture just now - I see no evidence of vertical HS bands. I could be completely wrong as I’m not sure how they’d present since my tooth is so white, so maybe you see something I don’t. I also checked the other pieces I have, and couldn’t find any. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Meganeura said: Jack, I took this picture just now - I see no evidence of vertical HS bands. I could be completely wrong as I’m not sure how they’d present since my tooth is so white, so maybe you see something I don’t. Daniel. Everything I am showing you is Rhino. All my Rhino displays Vertical HSBs. Earlier in this thread. Note in this 1st photo, vHSB on top edge, but not so clear on bottom edge. There is likely a reason for that that I have yet to figure out. Here is a juvenile cheek tooth , identified as Rhino by Richard Hulbert. Hard to see because there is little contrast, light colored, similar to your find. Here is your tooth. If you are on the path I am following you would blow up the image another couple of times. Because it is primarily edge enamel and thin, I initially said Rhino. But ,being consistent, If you can not find vHSB, it is probably Gomph. 1 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 8 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Daniel. Everything I am showing you is Rhino. All my Rhino displays Vertical HSBs. Earlier in this thread. Note in this 1st photo, vHSB on top edge, but not so clear on bottom edge. There is likely a reason for that that I have yet to figure out. Here is a juvenile cheek tooth , identified as Rhino by Richard Hulbert. Hard to see because there is little contrast, light colored, similar to your find. Here is your tooth. If you are on the path I am following you would blow up the image another couple of times. Because it is primarily edge enamel and thin, I initially said Rhino. But ,being consistent, If you can not find vHSB, it is probably Gomph. Right! Which I've definitely been following - I see that the enamel is very thin for a Gomph, and I'd be leaning towards rhino, but if I'm correct i should expect to see Vertical HSB's here, right? Which they are definitely not present in. In fact, checking all of my fragments, none seem to have any Vertical HSBs. Which doesn't really say much beyond "Probably not rhino". Do you think it would be worth emailing Richard Hulbert to ask him what his opinion would be? Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted July 15, 2022 Share Posted July 15, 2022 4 minutes ago, Meganeura said: Right! Which I've definitely been following - I see that the enamel is very thin for a Gomph, and I'd be leaning towards rhino, but if I'm correct i should expect to see Vertical HSB's here, right? Which they are definitely not present in. In fact, checking all of my fragments, none seem to have any Vertical HSBs. Which doesn't really say much beyond "Probably not rhino". Do you think it would be worth emailing Richard Hulbert to ask him what his opinion would be? Well , it seems like we are thinking: it sure looks like Rhino, but no HSB means Gomph... Richard might have a different view or see something we do not ... It can not hurt... take the shot... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Well , it seems like we are thinking: it sure looks like Rhino, but no HSB means Gomph... Richard might have a different view or see something we do not ... It can not hurt... take the shot... Then I'll keep everyone updated! 1 Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted July 15, 2022 Author Share Posted July 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Well , it seems like we are thinking: it sure looks like Rhino, but no HSB means Gomph... Richard might have a different view or see something we do not ... It can not hurt... take the shot... So Richard responded, he said it is a Gomph tooth: "It is a fragment from a gomphothere tooth. The thinnest of the enamel is likely caused by it being one the earlier erupting teeth, such as a dp4. But an exact tooth position cannot be determined because the tooth is too incomplete." Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.cheese Posted July 16, 2022 Share Posted July 16, 2022 Very cool! Good of him to answer you, you found some elephant-ish! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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