Lance's 27 June 2022 finds

[LanceH]

I went back to the same spot today as last week and cleaned up.

[grandpa]

Yes, you did; you did indeed!

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

Wow! That's a crazy amount of beautiful finds! Just think of us poor people, who go into the field for weeks or even months and even then don't manage to bring in a haul like this! Simply astonishing!

[Fossildude19]

Great finds, Lance!   

[LanceH]

And I could use an ID on these four teeth from the same spot.

Edited June 27, 2022 by LanceH

[digit]

1 hour ago, LanceH said:

I went back to the same spot today as last week and cleaned up.

 

I have a soft spot in my heart for these ancient shark teeth as Florida is too young to have any of these here. They have such awesome texture and look so different from (most) modern shark teeth and I think they are just awesome!

 

Some day I hope to make it over to TX and do some fossil hunting there. It would be great fun to hone my search image for these cool little teeth with the fingerprint surfaces. One of these days....

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[JohnJ]

38 minutes ago, LanceH said:

And I could use an ID on these four teeth from the same spot.

What are the dimensions?

 

@LSCHNELLE

@Jared C

@lizardman

 

[LanceH]

 

40 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

What are the dimensions?

 

@LSCHNELLE

@Jared C

@lizardman

 

The biggest is slightly over 1/2 inch or 1.5 cm from tip to longest edge of the base.

Edited June 27, 2022 by LanceH

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

1 hour ago, LanceH said:

And I could use an ID on these four teeth from the same spot.

 

I think the biggest and left-most one might be a Pachyrhizodus due to the one flat right side. Compare with the below image from Fossils of New Jersey.

 

 

The same appears to be the case for the second from left, whereas the second from right, due to its folded enamel, looks to me like a possible plioplatecarpine mosasaur. The right-most tooth also looks rather round in cross-section, which makes me think russellosaurine - especially as the carina excludes the amiid(?) fish teeth mentioned by @ThePhysicist here.

 

Whatever they are, though, that's a great set of teeth!

[LanceH]

They compare well to "Russellosaurus" to me.

[Jared C]

Is this Eagle Ford or Atco? Beautiful finds - I forgot who I was talking to, it was either Mike Polcyn or @Praefectus - but I seem to remember that there is a genera of mosasaur that has more facet like teeth surfaces than others, and your left most and right most remind me of it. It's completely escaping me now, but I will find out soon (In a small hurry right now). Alexander is anyway much more qualified than me in this regard, but like you I'm also having a hard time seeing pachrhizodus here. Sorry I couldn't be of much use except for a cliff hanger

[LSCHNELLE]

What an amazing set of shark and mosasaur tooth finds! Were they from the Eagle Ford formation? Or, were they loose in the creek? Or, both. 

 

If from the same formation, then the Ptychodus teeth date the formation to middle to late Turonian. For instance, the first tooth looks P. mammillaris lateral file. In your hand I see plenty of P. whipplei with a mix of P. anonymous (maybe). In the third picture lower two are P. marginalis while the other two might be P. mammillaris. The fourth pic has two P. whipplei above and below one of Shawn Hamm's new species. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by LSCHNELLE

[LanceH]

23 minutes ago, LSCHNELLE said:

What an amazing set of shark and mosasaur tooth finds! Were they from the Eagle Ford formation? Or, were they loose in the creek? Or, both. 

Kamp Ranch Limestone in Eagle Ford Group.  Ellis County, Texas.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

3 hours ago, Jared C said:

Is this Eagle Ford or Atco? Beautiful finds - I forgot who I was talking to, it was either Mike Polcyn or @Praefectus - but I seem to remember that there is a genera of mosasaur that has more facet like teeth surfaces than others, and your left most and right most remind me of it.

 

3 hours ago, LSCHNELLE said:

If from the same formation, then the Ptychodus teeth date the formation to middle to late Turonian.

 

There are quite a few mosasaurids that have faceted teeth. But keep in mind that the early date precludes many of the more derived species. What I've heard come out of this formation is mostly russellosaurines like plioplatecarpine species and Russellosaurus itself, although it may be possible to find the mosasaurine Dallasaurus there as well, seeing as 1) its holotype was described from the lower Middle Turonian Arcadia Park Shale that overlies the Kamp Ranch Limestone in Dallas County (source); and, 2) if Lee is correct in his determination of Ptychodus-teeth, the finds Lance has been making include and are younger than that time range, being Middle to Late Turonian. Hence my referral to @ThePhysicist's thread, as this discusses some of the basal mosasaurids encountered exactly in the Kamp Rance Limestone.

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

7 hours ago, LanceH said:

They compare well to "Russellosaurus" to me.

 

I've unfortunately seen too few actual Russellosaurus-teeth to be a 100% sure about their characteristics. The genus also seems to be used as a bit of a waste-bucket taxon (see here) due to the difficulty with the identification of these early teeth. As the second from right tooth has enamel folds, which are typical of plioplatecarpine mosasaurs, I'd say that's what it is, rather than being more generically russellosaurine. As for the two teeth on the left, I agree that they're difficult to identify and do look rather reptilian, especially the largest one due to its size and the fact that it's incomplete - making it hard to truly judge the shape of the cross-section at the base. So I'm also looking forward to hearing what others think about them

Edited June 28, 2022 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon

[LSCHNELLE]

I believe that the Kamp Ranch Member is sandwiched in between the lower and upper parts of the Arcadia Park Member. The Britton Member (lower part of Middle Turonian) is underlying the Arcadia Park. So, if I'm right the Arcadia Park and Kamp Ranch Members are Middle to Upper Turonian age (at ~90.8 to 91.7 mya?). 

[Jared C]

8 hours ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

There are quite a few mosasaurids that have faceted teeth. But keep in mind that the early date precludes many of the more derived species. What I've heard come out of this formation is mostly russellosaurines like plioplatecarpine species and Russellosaurus itself, although it may be possible to find the mosasaurine Dallasaurus there as well, seeing as 1) its holotype was described from the lower Middle Turonian Arcadia Park Shale that overlies the Kamp Ranch Limestone in Dallas County (source); and, 2) if Lee is correct in his determination of Ptychodus-teeth, the finds Lance has been making include and are younger than that time range, being Middle to Late Turonian. Hence my referral to @ThePhysicist's thread, as this discusses some of the basal mosasaurids encountered exactly in the Kamp Rance Limestone.

Thanks for the clarification, I was on a wild goose chase after my original comment about the faceting. I'm just here to vouch again for @pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon, as the mosasaur Mike and I are working on is also roughly middle Turonian, and from what he's taught me from that age, Plioplatecarpines are an often expected culprit around here.

[Praefectus]

I’m not up to date on early diverging mosasaurids, but I think all four of these teeth are mosasaur.

 

The hook-shaped posterior curvature on the left-most tooth is very reminiscent of Clidastes spp. If the age of the teeth is mid-late Turonian, that would put them just outside the range of this genus.

 

Does the third tooth have a front cutting edge? Based off the surface texture and amount of curvature, I’m thinking this may be a Russellosaurine pterygoid tooth. Lack of an anterior carina is a trait seen in some mosasaur pterygoid teeth. 

 

The second and fourth tooth are a little harder to place. I’m not seeing much as far as diagnostic characters that can further identify the teeth beyond Mosasauridae.

[JohnJ]

@LanceH have you sent an inquiry to Mike Polcyn, yet? 

 

mpolcyn (at) smu.edu

[LSCHNELLE]

@LanceH  - your find reminds me of  a similar find that my wife and I had in Central Texas in October 2017. It was one small pocket in the upper condensed zone of the South Bosque Member (your Arcadia Park and Kamp Ranch Members). We found a large Xiphactinus vertebrae, a large Cretoxyrhina tooth, several small mosasaur teeth, and over 150 Ptychodus teeth (mostly tiny baby teeth) in one shelly pocket in the shale. It was my first experience to find the new Ptychodus species that Shawn Hamm will put out a paper on later this year.

Edited June 29, 2022 by LSCHNELLE
Typo

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

On 6/29/2022 at 5:43 PM, Praefectus said:

I’m not up to date on early diverging mosasaurids, but I think all four of these teeth are mosasaur.

 

The hook-shaped posterior curvature on the left-most tooth is very reminiscent of Clidastes spp. If the age of the teeth is mid-late Turonian, that would put them just outside the range of this genus.

 

If mosasaurid - which increasingly seems to be the consensus-opinion in this thread and is making me shift camps, especially since my identification of the left-most two teeth as fish was never a very confident one to start with - I agree that the two left-most appear more like the more derived Clidastes than earlier mosasauroids. Wouldn't call them plioplatecarpine in any case

[LanceH]

I haven't updated my website for years but I posted all my pictures on this page:

http://www.northtexasfossils.com/2022-06-27.htm

FYI, my old cell phone camera was better than my current one.  I just don't want to carry a digicam and a phone.

Edited July 5, 2022 by LanceH

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

3 hours ago, LanceH said:

I haven't updated my website for years but I posted all my pictures on this page:

http://www.northtexasfossils.com/2022-06-27.htm

 

Yeah, yours is a great website! I've used it many times as a source of information and a reference guide. There's just such a wealth of information on there! Thanks for having put in all the effort to make it such an invaluable resource! 

[Agatized Deinonychus]

I wish I knew how to pickup new fossil sites. It seems like permissions and figuring out all the laws would be landmine.

 

I can't believe how many ptychodus teeth you found. Good day hunting.