Where to get Paraloid B72 in DFW and Other Questions

[Mikrogeophagus]

I've been recently looking into working with b72 for preserving and strengthening some of the pyrite and coal fossils I have. At the moment, I have a few questions regarding this topic:

 

1) For DFW folk, do you recommend any stores that sell b72 in the DFW area? For others, do you recommend any reputable online stores that ship it?

2) Should I store acetone in the original container I purchased it in? What is the safest part of the house to keep it?

3) What are any general tips/tricks you wish you knew before you started using b72?

 

Feel free to answer as few of my questions as you'd like. All advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited June 28, 2022 by EPIKLULSXDDDDD

[hadrosauridae]

Id be shocked if you found Paraloid B72 in any store.  Its far too niche of an item for businesses to carry.  Look up TALAS.com.  IF they dont have paraloid, Butvar B-76 is interchangeable for our use.

 

Yes, store the unused acetone in the original container.  I would recommend keeping it come place cool to help prevent evaporation, as opposed to storing it in a garage or shed.

 

Decide how you want to use it, and find out a good recommended % to mix. Ask on the forums, you'll get many answers. For thin consolidate solutions, measure with a scale.  So if you want 10% solution, you might start with 90 grams of acetone and 10 grams of plastic.  When you weigh out the amounts, add them into a convenient measuring device, like a measuring cup, tablespoon, etc.  That way, the next time you can know that you need X TBSP per X cups of acetone./alcohol, etc.

Add small amount of beads at a time, swirl the solution around periodically to help dissolve.  Glass mason jars work great for mix and storage.  Use tape on the jar to write the contents and % mix with a marker.  

The acetone will evaporate off over time, and while using it with the lid off.  Learn to get a feel for its tackiness while fresh... dip a finger tip into the solution and touch/open your finger to your thumb about once a second and count how many times before you feel it become "tacky" between your fingers.   As the solution thickens over time, just add more acetone/alcohol and mix/test until it "feels right".   

There is no "magic" ratio of solution.  Thin for consolidation, thick for gluing.  As you use it, you'll find what % you like best.

[Pixpaleosky]

To answer your question 1, I find mine most of the time on the famous auctions site

[Crusty_Crab]

1. I don't come from the DFW area, but as an other, I have purchased from an online retailer with no problems for a good price (You may PM me for the site). The minimum quantity was 1 lb. of B-72 beads. Its been years of very steady prep work and I still have at least 60% of my stock. I know DFW has a very active club. If you're a member, I would suggest reaching out to the club to see if there are other members that would be interested in splitting an order with you. 

 

2. Acetone is very volatile. You would not want to store it in an area where you live, since you may expose yourself to its vapors, even if you keep it sealed in its original packaging. See this for a summary of health effects: https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp21.pdf

Also, the exposure pathway is not just volatilization and breathing in the vapors, but also direct contact (i.e. the dermal exposure route). You can absorb it through your skin if you handle it without gloves. The third pathway is ingestion. Its unlikely an adult would drink the stuff down, but if you have pets or young children, you would obviously want to keep it out of their reach. For myself, I store it in its original packaging, and aliquot a working amount into a smaller polypropylene container for my work bench. I store my stock in a garage since I would rather risk volatilization rather than inside a living space and potentially exposing my family (including a very young child) to it. 

 

3. This article has been very helpful: https://www.academia.edu/1237393/Paraloid_B_72_Practical_Tips_for_the_Vertebrate_Fossil_Preparator

[GorgonGal]

On 6/28/2022 at 10:01 PM, hadrosauridae said:

There is no "magic" ratio of solution.  Thin for consolidation, thick for gluing.  As you use it, you'll find what % you like best.

 

Couldn't agree more with this statement. I've never really been precise enough to measure the % if paraloid, but over time and experience I've found that I can tell what sort of tackiness it has just by swirling it in the jar 

[Ptychodus04]

On 6/28/2022 at 2:36 PM, EPIKLULSXDDDDD said:

I've been recently looking into working with b72 for preserving and strengthening some of the pyrite and coal fossils I have. At the moment, I have a few questions regarding this topic:

 

1) For DFW folk, do you recommend any stores that sell b72 in the DFW area? For others, do you recommend any reputable online stores that ship it?

2) Should I store acetone in the original container I purchased it in? What is the safest part of the house to keep it?

3) What are any general tips/tricks you wish you knew before you started using b72?

 

Feel free to answer as few of my questions as you'd like. All advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

Generally, it's been out of stock just about everywhere recently. It's a 100% online item.  ZOIC Palaeotech (UK company) does have it in stock right now and their shipping is reasonable (I just paid $60 to have 2 scribes shipped Fedex overnight).

 

I like a roughly 2% solution for stabilization. Each specimen needs a different viscosity, so you will need to adjust as needed, but 1 part Paraloid to 50 parts acetone (2.5%) will give you a very thin solution that really penetrates most fossils.

 

Keep in mind what storage vessel you use for the solution. The acetone tends to degrade most materials used for seals. I've found that small glass specimen vials work well for smaller quantities. Small pickle or olive jars work well also but the seal does degrade over time. Eventually, you will have to add acetone to your solution regardless of what you use since the acetone will evaporate. The better seal you have, the longer you will have between times of adding acetone.

[TRexEliot]

On 6/29/2022 at 12:57 PM, Crusty_Crab said:

2. Acetone is very volatile. You would not want to store it in an area where you live, since you may expose yourself to its vapors, even if you keep it sealed in its original packaging. See this for a summary of health effects: https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp21.pdf

Also, the exposure pathway is not just volatilization and breathing in the vapors, but also direct contact (i.e. the dermal exposure route). You can absorb it through your skin if you handle it without gloves. The third pathway is ingestion. Its unlikely an adult would drink the stuff down, but if you have pets or young children, you would obviously want to keep it out of their reach. For myself, I store it in its original packaging, and aliquot a working amount into a smaller polypropylene container for my work bench. I store my stock in a garage since I would rather risk volatilization rather than inside a living space and potentially exposing my family (including a very young child) to it. 

This is a huge exaggeration of the dangers of acetone. Nail polish remover is somewhere on the order of 50% acetone, and people apply that stuff on and around skin on a weekly basis for decades without severe effects. If stored in the original container, the rate of evaporation through the seal should be so slow that it will be virtually undetectable and will dissipate as air circulates. The real dangers are 1. Don't use it in an unventilated area, 2. It's very flammable, so keep it in a safe place far from high heat, sparks, etc., and 3. Like you said, keep far out of reach of children who might ingest it. Basically the same protocols you'd use with any normal mildly harmful substance like a bleach cleaner, etc.

Edited June 1, 2023 by TRexEliot

[jpc]

I keep my acetone in its original container tightly sealed. I store my small amounts of acetone and acetone-based vinac (similar to Butvar), in an cleaned out (very well) shampoo bottle.  It is a number 2 plastic and does well with acetone.  I think the lids are No 5 but they have not been adversely affected except for getting gummed up with vinac, and I have used the same shampoo bottles for many years.  I keep a channel lock wrench in my vinacing supplies (including my field pack) to open them up.   No 2 plastics (Nalgene is a good example) is acetone safe.  No 5 plastic (yogurt containers) will dissolve over a few days or weeks.  No 1 plastics (soft drink bottles) will dissolve immediately, and styrofoam will dissolve even faster, and even from only the fumes.  When I take the stuff in the field, I do keep all the nasty chemicals in the back of the truck and in a 3 1/2 gallon plastic (no 2) bucket to keep them from spilling.     

[JohnJ]

2 hours ago, TRexEliot said:

This is a huge exaggeration of the dangers of acetone.

When offering information to an audience with a broad spectrum of learning and/or health issues, it is not a "huge exaggeration".  To some of those familiar with handling chemicals, it may seem like alarmism, but that presumes comprehension of proper storage and handling.

[jpc]

26 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

When offering information to an audience with a broad spectrum of learning and/or health issues, it is not a "huge exaggeration".  To some of those familiar with handling chemicals, it may seem like alarmism, but that presumes comprehension of proper storage and handling.

I agree on both sides here.  Small quantities like folks use for removing fingernail polish are generally pretty innocuous, but some of us are dealing with full gallons of acetone.  Spill or get that much on you and acetone has just become a bit more of a worry.  Something you want to be aware of as well, is do your best to avoid spilling that whole gallon jug, and know what to do if you do spill it, especially indoors.  A puddle of acetone indoors will quickly get a person light headed... that is enough to tell the user that something is amiss.    

[TRexEliot]

22 hours ago, jpc said:

I agree on both sides here.  Small quantities like folks use for removing fingernail polish are generally pretty innocuous, but some of us are dealing with full gallons of acetone.  Spill or get that much on you and acetone has just become a bit more of a worry.  Something you want to be aware of as well, is do your best to avoid spilling that whole gallon jug, and know what to do if you do spill it, especially indoors.  A puddle of acetone indoors will quickly get a person light headed... that is enough to tell the user that something is amiss.    

My point was mostly just that the person I responded to was making it sound way more insidious than it is. Even in large quantities, a sealed container of acetone is not going to be escaping at a rate fast enough to be harmful. Also, unless you're like soaking your whole hand for prolonged periods of time, the main mechanism for absorption is going to be through inhalation of the fumes, so just using it in a well ventilated area is the main thing to watch out for. Gloves don't hurt, but realistically probably not all that necessary.

 

The person I responded to made it sound like hydrofluoric acid or something.