Megalodon and curvature

[Searcher78]

Of all the megs I have seen in person and in videos or pictures, I noticed that almost all lack any prominent curvature. Even the posterior teeth lack curvature.  Are the megs with curvature a different age than the straight ones? Just wondering what peoples thoughts were.

 

[digit]

While some of the extreme posterior meg teeth seem to be all root and very little blade--extremely low and wide, most of the ones trending toward the back corners of the mouth do seem to have a bit of curvature to them the same way that many other species curve away from the midline of the jaw (symphysis) toward the corners. If you do an internet image search for posteriors you'll see several with this curvature. I've not heard anybody consider these a separate species from the meg.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=posterior+meg+teeth&tbm=isch

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Searcher78]

21 minutes ago, digit said:

While some of the extreme posterior meg teeth seem to be all root and very little blade--extremely low and wide, most of the ones trending toward the back corners of the mouth do seem to have a bit of curvature to them the same way that many other species curve away from the midline of the jaw (symphysis) toward the corners. If you do an internet image search for posteriors you'll see several with this curvature. I've not heard anybody consider these a separate species from the meg.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=posterior+meg+teeth&tbm=isch

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

Thanks, I understood the shark teeth curved more as you moved away from center, but people keep mentioning serrated threshers and it keeps me second guessing.

[digit]

I can see Alopias (threshers) as another curved tooth possibility but the large serrations and thick root do make me think of a posterior meg. Might be interesting to compare those two tooth types and figure out distinct differences between them. 

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[siteseer]

38 minutes ago, Searcher78 said:

Thanks, I understood the shark teeth curved more as you moved away from center, but people keep mentioning serrated threshers and it keeps me second guessing.

 

In general the upper teeth are more curved and the lowers are straighter.  In the case of megalodon the teeth evolved toward cutting through tough flesh and bones more efficiently.  Larger, regularly-serrated, and less-curved teeth seem to be the optimal form for that.  The more curved teeth of other sharks seem to have more of a grasping function or a combination grasping and cutting function. 

[Meganeura]

Question in mostly a similar vein - I learned recently that the "Front" of the tooth - as in the side that points out of the mouth - is actually what we traditionally call the backside of the tooth - and the side with the bourlette is what faces inward. If that's the case - why do the tips of shark teeth bend/curve outward? Isn't that disadvantageous for chewing?

[digit]

The convex side of the tooth (what we call the "display side") is indeed the lingual side and not the labial side. I've heard that upper meg teeth curve a bit to the labial side and the lower teeth curve a bit to the lingual side giving the meg something like an overbite (if the teeth actually occluded.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[siteseer]

11 hours ago, Meganeura said:

Question in mostly a similar vein - I learned recently that the "Front" of the tooth - as in the side that points out of the mouth - is actually what we traditionally call the backside of the tooth - and the side with the bourlette is what faces inward. If that's the case - why do the tips of shark teeth bend/curve outward? Isn't that disadvantageous for chewing?

 

Sharks don't chew.  They either swallow their prey whole or bite it into pieces they can swallow whole.  Mammals have molars for chewing which is repeated crushing of the food into a pulp with saliva added as the first stage of breaking it down to be digested.

[digit]

Sharks like the bullhead sharks (Heterodontus) and rays like Dasyatis, Myliobatis and Aetobatus which have crushing teeth (or tooth plates) meant for grinding up hard shelled invertebrates could sort of be said to "chew" or at least breaking down the exoskeletons of their prey. But as mentioned most sharks have elongate needle like teeth for grasping or blade like teeth for slicing and they are able to digest chunks of meat rather than chewing them first.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[hokietech96]

Nice find!! Congrats!  Where did you find it?

[Meganeura]

7 hours ago, siteseer said:

 

Sharks don't chew.  They either swallow their prey whole or bite it into pieces they can swallow whole.  Mammals have molars for chewing which is repeated crushing of the food into a pulp with saliva added as the first stage of breaking it down to be digested.

Sorry I should clarify - I did actually know that - I meant cutting not chewing! Taking bites out of prey (When they do) - it seems disadvantageous to have teeth that are curved outwards instead of inwards, no?

[digit]

4 hours ago, Meganeura said:

it seems disadvantageous to have teeth that are curved outwards instead of inwards, no?

Shouldn't think so. I cannot say that I've studied the physiology of shark dentition and biting mechanics enough to know exactly how the teeth interact (or don't) when the jaw is closed during feeding. I've dived with hundreds of sharks over the years and (thankfully) most of the time they were not in feeding mode. I do know some experts at the Florida Program for Shark Research and it might be interesting to consult the experts to learn more about shark occlusion.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Meganeura]

18 minutes ago, digit said:

Shouldn't think so. I cannot say that I've studied the physiology of shark dentition and biting mechanics enough to know exactly how the teeth interact (or don't) when the jaw is closed during feeding. I've dived with hundreds of sharks over the years and (thankfully) most of the time they were not in feeding mode. I do know some experts at the Florida Program for Shark Research and it might be interesting to consult the experts to learn more about shark occlusion.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

That really does sound interesting! Anyone in specific you’d recommend?

[digit]

I've dropped an email and will report back if I've learned anything of interest.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[digit]

The one thing that does come to mind is that shark teeth travel along a cartilaginous conveyor which brings fresh teeth into active use from the lingual side as old ones loosen and detach on the labial side. It would seem that the line of teeth in each of these files (tooth positions) are constantly on the move and alignment of uppers and lowers in some sort of precise occlusion (as in other species like humans that don't replace their teeth continuously) would not be possible to coordinate.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

Hmmm,

I found a meg yesterday>  and I thought of a question that I did not ask,  that relates to this thread. Draw a straight vertical center line and easy to see this tooth is not symmetric on each side of the line.

Does that tell me which side of the jaw this tooth came from?

 

 I guess I wanted to see that question answered for the OPs tooth... 

 

[digit]

It would appear that this tooth is asymmetrically leaning a bit to the right. We are looking at the non-flat "display" side which is the lingual and not labial side (looking at it from inside the mouth (a scary thought when talking about megalodons). I'm not up to snuff on my distinctions between upper and lower megs but I do know the teeth in sharks tend to lean toward the corners of the mouth (posteriorly) and not toward the symphysis in the center of the jaw. If this tooth is a lower then that would indicate it is a tooth from the lower right quadrant. If upper then it would be from the upper left quadrant.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Searcher78]

On 6/30/2022 at 11:42 PM, hokietech96 said:

Nice find!! Congrats!  Where did you find it?

From Chesapeake bay.

[Searcher78]

On 6/30/2022 at 9:23 AM, Meganeura said:

Question in mostly a similar vein - I learned recently that the "Front" of the tooth - as in the side that points out of the mouth - is actually what we traditionally call the backside of the tooth - and the side with the bourlette is what faces inward. If that's the case - why do the tips of shark teeth bend/curve outward? Isn't that disadvantageous for chewing?

It is funny you mentioned this. The first time I saw a model of a megalodon’s mouth, I thought they had the teeth in backwards. That is when I learned how the teeth are positioned in the mouth.

[Meganeura]

56 minutes ago, Searcher78 said:

It is funny you mentioned this. The first time I saw a model of a megalodon’s mouth, I thought they had the teeth in backwards. That is when I learned how the teeth are positioned in the mouth.

I did the exact same until I read that they faced the other way!

[Meganeura]

9 hours ago, digit said:

It would appear that this tooth is asymmetrically leaning a bit to the right. We are looking at the non-flat "display" side which is the lingual and not labial side (looking at it from inside the mouth (a scary thought when talking about megalodons). I'm not up to snuff on my distinctions between upper and lower megs but I do know the teeth in sharks tend to lean toward the corners of the mouth (posteriorly) and not toward the symphysis in the center of the jaw. If this tooth is a lower then that would indicate it is a tooth from the lower right quadrant. If upper then it would be from the upper left quadrant.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

See and this is what I’m talking about - it’s so strange to see that this is the inside side of the tooth! It just feels… wrong!