Old Collection #1: Lots of Coal Plants

[MrBones]

Hello everyone,

 

I have recently received an old collection from an old married couple who weren't interested in it anymore. Some of the items were purchased in 1905! They got them from the man's father who was Dutch. Unfortunately, many of the fossils did not come with their labels, and the labels I do have are written in Dutch, and in cursive...

 

I will be posting most of the fossils on the forum through the next few days in hopes of getting some id's, locations, ages, as well as any other useful information. If the photos aren't clear enough just tell me the number so that I can send a better image.

 

Here are the plants. I assume most of them come from a coal mine.

 

#1

 

 

#2

There was some writing on the back

 

 

#3

 

 

#4

 

 

#5.5 (Edit: accidentally added 5 twice)

 

 

#5

 

 

#6

 

 

#7

 

 

#8

 

 

#9

 

 

#10

 

 

#11

 

 

#12

 

 

#13

 

 

#14

 

 

#15

 

 

#16

 

 

#17

 

 

#18

 

 

#19

 

 

#20

 

 

#21

 

 

#22

 

 

#23

The next two look like calamites

 

 

#24

 

 

#25 

Looks like sigillaria

 

 

#26

 

 

#27

 

 

#28

 

 

#29

 

 

#30

I think this is the wrong label, it appears to say something like "lava from Vesuvius"

 

 

#31

 

 

#32

 

 

#33

 

 

#34

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by MrBones
Formatting, spelling

[MrBones]

Forgot to mention, most of the fossils seem to come from Germany, or somewhere else in Europe. The lady who gave them to me said that some of the things could come from Asia, as there were many Dutch colonies there at the time.

[FossilDAWG]

For what it's worth, the plants and their matrix is consistent with material I collected in southern Netherlands (Limburg province, around Brunnsum and Heerlen).  The cursive labels are hard to read, but I think I saw "Limburg" on a couple of them.

 

Don

[Mark Kmiecik]

A very nice collection of Pennsylvanian (Moscovian) plants. Not likely that any of them are from Asia. 

[Oxytropidoceras]

I cannot help with the fossils. However, I found possible 

candidates for abbreviations on the label in the book:

 

Klaas Van Berkel, Albert Van Helden, L. C. Palm, 

1999, The History of Science in the Netherlands: 

Survey, Themes and Reference. Brill 659 pages.

 

On page 559, for “R.O.v.D.”, there is:

 

“...of the Rijksopsporing van Delfstoffen (ROVD), the 

government service responsible for mineral exploration.”

 

On page 195, for “R.G.D.”, there is:

 

"... new Rijks Geologische Dienst (National Geological 

Service), or RGD.”

 

Both are govermental agencies of the Netherlands.

 

The book notes that the ROVD concerned itself with

deep subsurface mining, while the RGD concerned itself

with geologic mapping with surface deposits of the

Netherlands.

 

Yours,

 

Paul H.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Oxytropidoceras

[MrBones]

4 hours ago, FossilDAWG said:

For what it's worth, the plants and their matrix is consistent with material I collected in southern Netherlands (Limburg province, around Brunnsum and Heerlen).  The cursive labels are hard to read, but I think I saw "Limburg" on a couple of them.

 

Don

 I see! So can I assume that all the plants with the dark matrixes are from the same (or similar) locality?

 

11 minutes ago, Oxytropidoceras said:

The book notes that the ROVD concerned itself with

deep subsurface mining, while the RGD concerned itself

with geologic mapping with surface deposits of the

Netherlands.

 

Very interesting! Thank you very much.

[FossilDAWG]

12 minutes ago, MrBones said:

 I see! So can I assume that all the plants with the dark matrixes are from the same (or similar) locality?

I would not go that far.  The dark/grey shale lithology is common to a lot of Carboniferous sites worldwide.  My point was just that they could be from the Netherlands (or immediately nearby areas in Belgium and the Aachen area of Germany), as the original collector was Dutch, and you should keep that in mind while trying to decipher the labels.  Also most of the plants seem (as far as I can tell) to be the same species as I found in that area back in the 1970s.   Perhaps @paleoflor could comment on the similarity of your specimens to the Limburg coal field species.  BTW have you tried to look at the labels under UV light?  Sometimes that can enhance the readability of faded ink.

 

Don

[rocket]

some plants coming from belgium, Ardennen, on label shows it, carboniferous

when you see #5, "Belgische Ardennen"

very nice

Edited July 6, 2022 by rocket

[Oxytropidoceras]

Additional notes:

 

1. Could “ZL.” on the bottom left corner of one label

be the abbreviation for “Zeeland”? And could 

“ZL. 5 ’20-2500” be an “ancient” phone number?

 

2. Use google translate to look at:

The Rijksopsporing van Delfstoffen

Nederlandse encyclopedie, uitgegeven van 1916-1925

 

Yours,

 

Paul H.

[MrBones]

19 hours ago, Oxytropidoceras said:

 

Additional notes:

 

1. Could “ZL.” on the bottom left corner of one label

be the abbreviation for “Zeeland”? And could 

“ZL. 5 ’20-2500” be an “ancient” phone number?

 

2. Use google translate to look at:

The Rijksopsporing van Delfstoffen

Nederlandse encyclopedie, uitgegeven van 1916-1925

 

Yours,

 

Paul H.

 

Thanks again. I think it's really cool that the labels have just as much history as the fossils!

[DutchFossilSeeker]

As a Dutch person and someone who has fossil hunted in that area i think i can help a bit. The cursive is hard to read and many of the labels are degraded, but this is what i can read:

 

Foto 5:  lower carboniferous (kolenkalk)

Prehistoric caves of Harfoux? Belgian Ardennes

- kolenkalk is a formation/group name, belgian hardstone in english. This is an incorrect  id since the kolenkalk is purely marine, (and know for its masses of crinoid stems). The plant fossils from this region are mostly westphalian.

 

Foto 29: Pecopteris aquilina, in coal sandstone.

 

Foto 30: lava, pumice from vesuvius, (obviously wrong).

 

Foto 31: Sphacopteris spiniformis, upper catboniferous, Maurits, Limburg.

Maurits is the name of one of the now closed coal mines in the area. So the fossil likely came from the mine, or its tailings pile. 

Beautifull collection to receive.

 

@Oxytropidoceras ZL likely stands for Zuid Limburg (southern Limburg).

[paleoflor]

Hi @MrBones,

 

Hello from the Netherlands. These are some really interesting specimens! The old R.G.D. labels are fantastic too!

 

#1: As @Oxytropidoceras already wrote, R.O.v.D. = Rijksopsporing van delfstoffen (Government institute for the geological exporation of the Netherlands) and R.G.D = Rijks geologische dienst (Dutch geological survey). While the abbreviation "ZL" is nowadays used often for the Dutch province of Zeeland, I highly doubt this meaning is applicable here (I checked the "Eindrapport", i.e. the "final report" of the R.O.v.D., and as far as I can see no borings were conducted in Zeeland). Unfortunately, I cannot find any references for (or use of) the abbreviation "ZL" in the literature I have here (most R.G.D. publications use other kinds of catalogue/locality reference numbers). Could mean many things and difficult to say with confidence, but @DutchFossilSeeker's suggestion of Zuid Limburg is definitely plausible. With regard to the hand-written text, I believe to discern the word "loshii" on the third line, which could refer to Neuropteris (Laveineopteris) loshii. However, I doubt this is a correct ID. Perhaps I'm just seeing things here - unfortunately the writing is very faded...

#2: Compare with Alethopteris decurrens. Also fits with the "Al. dec" I believe to see scratched on the backside. Cannot discern the stuff written below the "Al. dec", though (locality?)

#3: Neuropterid? No scale on photo...

#4: Beautiful specimen! 

#5.5: Mariopterid

#5: Lepidodendron branches? As already pointed out by @DutchFossilSeeker, the label you show here is unlikely to belong to the specimen.

#6: Palmatopteris sp. or Sphenopteris sp.? Beautiful specimen! UPDATE: This might actually be the Sphenopteris spiniformis mentioned on Label #31. I cannot discern any of the characteristic "spines", but the pinnule shape and rachis look rather similar.

#7: Cordaites sp. leaf?

#8: Calamites sp.

#9: Mariopterid and Eusphenopteris?

#10: Palmatopteris sp.?

#12: Mariopterid

#13: Eusphenopteris sp.

#15: Asterophyllites sp. (+Annularia sp.?). Label says "Emma", which is one of the Dutch State Mines (named after our Queen Emma). The label also mentions "Westfal C ... B", which corresponds to the Westphalian B-C = Duckmantian to Bolsovian regional stage. Note this label also contains the "ZL". The mine "Emma" was located in Zuid Limburg, which supports @DutchFossilSeeker's hypothesis that "ZL" stands for Zuid Limburg.

#17: Neuropterid and pecopterid?

#18: Pecopterid

#19: Mariopteris cf. muricata

#20: Annularia sp. (cf. A. galioides?) + seed?

#21: Calamites sp.

#23: Calamites sp. (cf. C. suckowii?)

#24: Calamites sp. (cf. C. suckowii?)

#25: Indeed Sigillaria sp. (or Syringodendron)

#26: Pecopterid

#27: Compare with examples of Caulopteris????????

#31: NOT Sphenopteris spiniformis!!!!!! Label must have been misplaced, as the specimen shows some stem structure. The label may belong to #6 instead...  

 

Hope this helps,

 

Tim

[MrBones]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:41 PM, paleoflor said:

Hope this helps,

 

Tim

 

This was extremely useful, thank you very much Tim!

 

I am not at all knowledgeable on plants, but your ID's seem to match up with what I have. I'll be adding new labels to these specimens with all the new information everyone has provided. I will also make sure to keep the old ones as they are really cool and "antique". 

[Plantguy]

Very nice collection of plants! The old labels/provenance are/is very fascinating!

Regards, Chris