Damaged Plesiosaur Tooth

[SpokenClaw]

First of all hiiiii this is my first post on this forum

 

Soo, I live in germany and am doing some vacation on the beach rn. I found a guy selling gems and fossils. I bought this lil specimen. After I bought it he said its the most rare thing in his inventory lol. According to the guy the tooth is from a plesiosaur, unknown if there is more in the matrix(Atleast there are some shells but thats not the point of this post anyways.). All I got about where its from was "south brazil".

 

Facts list:

>Plesiosaur tooth presumably

>partially damaged

>From (southern) Brazil

 

The measurement in the pictures is in cm.

Id really appreciate if anyone could help me identify this one, already thanks in advance^^

 

 

[Troodon]

Welcome

This actually looks like a partial tooth from Morocco might be plesiosaur.   Complete specimens are very common.  This type of matrix may have broken fish verts in it.  

[mr.cheese]

I agree with troon, it is very likely a Plesiosaur partial tooth, you can just about make out the curve to the tooth. The matrix is very consistent with Moroccan teeth, I am not familiar with Brazilian matrix but I would be shocked if it came from anywhere else other than Morocco!

These are very common and inexpensive teeth, I personally wouldn't be rushing to give the seller any more money and I hope you didn't pay too much for this one.

 

Welcome to the forum, and please feel free to post any pictures of anything you are thinking of buying in the future so we can help before you buy!

[SpokenClaw]

7 minutes ago, mr.cheese said:

I agree with troon, it is very likely a Plesiosaur partial tooth, you can just about make out the curve to the tooth. The matrix is very consistent with Moroccan teeth, I am not familiar with Brazilian matrix but I would be shocked if it came from anywhere else other than Morocco!

These are very common and inexpensive teeth, I personally wouldn't be rushing to give the seller any more money and I hope you didn't pay too much for this one.

 

Welcome to the forum, and please feel free to post any pictures of anything you are thinking of buying in the future so we can help before you buy!

Thanks for the help! Interesting that everyone with some knowledge in the field agreed that its very likely from marocco. I assume the guy was just misinformed or mixed something up then. I didnt spend that much on it, though I have now idea about the prizes for such things so idk. I payed like 18 euro, was that expensive if you dont mind me askin?

 

also thanks for the warm welcoming

Seems like a pretty nice place, im quite interested in the topic but havent really professionally dug into it or anything, just kinda like casual internet self-teaching

[Troodon]

We do not value items but will say complete teeth can sell for what you paid but price is a function of quality and size.  Partial teeth like yours have little value because they are very common and not complete.

 

[mr.cheese]

The type of matrix is very recognisable, you can get Mosasaur teeth in the same matrix amongst other things!

 

We don't do valuations in the forum but I will say I certainly would not have paid more! But hey it is real and it is yours and it is somewhere around 70 million years old. Enjoy it for what it is.

[SpokenClaw]

Oh yeah sorry forgot about the not-rating-prices thing, but yeah its still just a cool thing to have and I might look if the matrix has anything else to offer^^

[Jared C]

36 minutes ago, SpokenClaw said:

I might look if the matrix has anything else to offer^^

While I have never worked on Moroccan material, my experience with marine reptile teeth is that they are quite delicate and don't make a good first prep project (risk of damaging the tooth ). Perhaps practice on some gastropods or even a shark tooth before picking apart this one

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

2 hours ago, Jared C said:

While I have never worked on Moroccan material, my experience with marine reptile teeth is that they are quite delicate and don't make a good first prep project (risk of damaging the tooth ). Perhaps practice on some gastropods or even a shark tooth before picking apart this one

 

The Moroccan material I have worked on from the same formation is fairly stable - this is the teeth of mosasaurs and the like, but bones are often incredibly fragile, and should only really be prepped if you know what you are doing, with acid.

[SpokenClaw]

4 minutes ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

 

The Moroccan material I have worked on from the same formation is fairly stable - this is the teeth of mosasaurs and the like, but bones are often incredibly fragile, and should only really be prepped if you know what you are doing, with acid.

 

2 hours ago, Jared C said:

While I have never worked on Moroccan material, my experience with marine reptile teeth is that they are quite delicate and don't make a good first prep project (risk of damaging the tooth ). Perhaps practice on some gastropods or even a shark tooth before picking apart this one

I see I see, ill restrain myself from doing anything to this one then for the time being, thanks for the advise.

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

9 minutes ago, SpokenClaw said:

 

I see I see, ill restrain myself from doing anything to this one then for the time being, thanks for the advise.

 

You are very welcome! Nice mailbox score, as we here call them!

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

A others have already said, this is a clear sample of a Zarafasaura oceanis elasmosauride plesiosaur tooth - albeit just the tip. The matrix (mother rock) is very recognizable as that of the Maastrichtian layers (last stage of the Cretaceous, or "Age of the Dinosaurs") from the phosphate mines at the Ouled Abdoun basin. As has been noted, you can also find mosasaur and fish remains in the same layers, as well as sharks' teeth and coprolites (fossil dung).

 

I find the matrix is rather soft and easy to work with dental picks, preparation needles, tooth picks and the like, with phosphate pieces often being used exactly as practice material (since it's easy to work, rather ubiquitously available at little expense, teeth are relatively stable and results can be fun and exciting). Where matrix gets a bit hard, slightly moistening the rock will instantly make it softer.

 

That having been said, though, you do need to take care when trying to extract the teeth, as a white glue varnish is often applied over an entire piece to stabilise the matrix. This can sometimes be tricky to get through, and thus you need to acquire a bit of experience to teach you where pressures in the rock will move if you push down in a specific spot or excavate another. In general, it works well to excavate around your tooth, leaving it on a pedestal, then start to remove the pedestal from the place where the tooth is thinnest. This is not 100% foolproof, however, as there may be hairline fractures you did not or were not able to see. Hence, plesiosaur teeth are often broken on extraction, and some repairs will be needed (cyano-acrylate [CA]/superglues are recommended, but have their own learning curve; for starters white/wood glue is not a bad option). Furthermore, depending on the density of fossils in your rock, you may need to dig through some of the other fossils in the rock to extract the one fossil you're after. These white fossils are gypsum-based and this very soft and fragile - extracting them can be a lot more challenging than a reptile tooth. Take care when digging through one of these fossils when trying to extract a tooth, however, as where such a white fossil touches a tooth, the rock may be much harder than in the surrounding area.

 

Seeing as how relatively common your specimen is, if you don't mind damaging it, is say its a perfect first piece to learn fossil preparation off of

[SpokenClaw]

32 minutes ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

 

You are very welcome! Nice mailbox score, as we here call them!

Now you confused my brain, what is called a mailbox score? 

[SpokenClaw]

24 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said:

A others have already said, this is a clear sample of a Zarafasaura oceanis elasmosauride plesiosaur tooth - albeit just the tip. The matrix (mother rock) is very recognizable as that of the Maastrichtian layers (last stage of the Cretaceous, or "Age of the Dinosaurs") from the phosphate mines at the Ouled Abdoun basin. As has been noted, you can also find mosasaur and fish remains in the same layers, as well as sharks' teeth and coprolites (fossil dung).

 

I find the matrix is rather soft and easy to work with dental picks, preparation needles, tooth picks and the like, with phosphate pieces often being used exactly as practice material (since it's easy to work, rather ubiquitously available at little expense, teeth are relatively stable and results can be fun and exciting). Where matrix gets a bit hard, slightly moistening the rock will instantly make it softer.

 

That having been said, though, you do need to take care when trying to extract the teeth, as a white glue varnish is often applied over an entire piece to stabilise the matrix. This can sometimes be tricky to get through, and thus you need to acquire a bit of experience to teach you where pressures in the rock will move if you push down in a specific spot or excavate another. In general, it works well to excavate around your tooth, leaving it on a pedestal, then start to remove the pedestal from the place where the tooth is thinnest. This is not 100% foolproof, however, as there may be hairline fractures you did not or were not able to see. Hence, plesiosaur teeth are often broken on extraction, and some repairs will be needed (cyano-acrylate [CA]/superglues are recommended, but have their own learning curve; for starters white/wood glue is not a bad option). Furthermore, depending on the density of fossils in your rock, you may need to dig through some of the other fossils in the rock to extract the one fossil you're after. These white fossils are gypsum-based and this very soft and fragile - extracting them can be a lot more challenging than a reptile tooth. Take care when digging through one of these fossils when trying to extract a tooth, however, as where such a white fossil touches a tooth, the rock may be much harder than in the surrounding area.

 

Seeing as how relatively common your specimen is, if you don't mind damaging it, is say its a perfect first piece to learn fossil preparation off of

Thank for the long explanation and advise! Very appreciated^^

Not gonna lie, I didnt expect so many quick responses, a suprise for sure but a welcome one

[Kane]

6 minutes ago, SpokenClaw said:

Now you confused my brain, what is called a mailbox score? 

A long running thread on this forum where members post fossils that arrive in the mail via purchase, gift, or trade.

 

 

[SpokenClaw]

1 minute ago, Kane said:

A long running thread on this forum where members post fossils that arrive in the mail via purchase, gift, or trade.

 

 

Ohh I see 

[Praefectus]

I agree with the others. It is a Moroccan plesiosaur tooth. 

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

2 hours ago, SpokenClaw said:

Now you confused my brain, what is called a mailbox score? 

 

Ach tut mir leid, mein Freund! Ich glaube nicht, dass es sich gut übersetzen lässt, also versuche ich es auf Englisch...

 

A mailbox score is when you "score" a win in your mailbox by buying (or acquiring) a really nice fossil, not collected by you. 

[SpokenClaw]

5 minutes ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

 

Ach tut mir leid, mein Freund! Ich glaube nicht, dass es sich gut übersetzen lässt, also versuche ich es auf Englisch...

 

A mailbox score is when you "score" a win in your mailbox by buying (or acquiring) a really nice fossil, not collected by you. 

I think I understand yeah lol^^

 

also; german moment 

btw, if you dont mind me going a bit off topic, am I using quotations correctly? I dont have much experience with forums like this

Edited July 10, 2022 by SpokenClaw

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

Just now, SpokenClaw said:

I think I understand yeah lol^^

 

also; german moment 

btw, am I using quotations correctly? I dont have much experience with forums like this

 

You're using them just right.  

 

Indeed, we are both bilingual I see!

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

Being said, there could be worth in sending it off to someone experienced who could prepare it for a price, given that there is definitely more material present.

 

Shown in red is the presence of an, most likely, Enchodus sp. vertebra, and, in blue, some bone/jaw material, that would be easier to ID in-hand.

 

Just some things to consider!

Isaac

[SpokenClaw]

14 hours ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

Being said, there could be worth in sending it off to someone experienced who could prepare it for a price, given that there is definitely more material present.

 

Shown in red is the presence of an, most likely, Enchodus sp. vertebra, and, in blue, some bone/jaw material, that would be easier to ID in-hand.

 

Just some things to consider!

Isaac

Ill for sure consider it, thanks for all the analysis and advice. Didnt expect to be so much "intrigue" to this little rock, from false origins over how-to-prepare-a-specimen to what else is in there. Its just really cool and almost fascinating knowing the exact genera a speciment thats just lying around on your desk belongs/belonged to!

 

[IsaacTheFossilMan]

44 minutes ago, SpokenClaw said:

Ill for sure consider it, thanks for all the analysis and advice. Didnt expect to be so much "intrigue" to this little rock, from false origins over how-to-prepare-a-specimen to what else is in there. Its just really cool and almost fascinating knowing the exact genera a speciment thats just lying around on your desk belongs/belonged to!

 

Indeed! If you would want to, I would be more than happy to prep it for you, or I could try and find you a local preparator!

[pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon]

14 hours ago, IsaacTheFossilMan said:

Being said, there could be worth in sending it off to someone experienced who could prepare it for a price, given that there is definitely more material present.

 

Shown in red is the presence of an, most likely, Enchodus sp. vertebra, and, in blue, some bone/jaw material, that would be easier to ID in-hand.

 

While I agree with your analysis of what else is still included in the block of matrix, I doubt it'd really pay off having a professional preparator look at it. The value of the specimens you're likely to find would be way less than what you'd pay for the preparation - at least insofar as market-value goes with respect to available Moroccan material - so I'd certainly recommend that, if anything, you'd try to extract these pieces yourself, knowing you're risking loosing them because of your inexperience... But to each his/her own, of course

[Troodon]

I agree If you want to do anything try it yourself.  That matrix is typically very pebblie and easily worked but if a consolidant has been applied to the matrix it becomes a bigger project.  I personally would leave it as is because the odds of finding anything worthwhile is small.  The tooth is also fractured in several spots and would have to be stabilized before removal otherwise it will fall apart.

Looks good as is and provides a good stand for the tooth.