caterpillar Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Bad news for french fossils collectors from North of France.......and others https://france3-regions.francetvinfo.fr/normandie/calvados/bientot-une-interdiction-de-ramasser-des-fossiles-a-villers-sur-mer-2583356.html?fbclid=IwAR0Q7LG9iJ2wHzASlPRAj8n9bU5OYG8zfbKOmi43bpQ0NlOVsgeAeLtyKcE 1 http://www.paleotheque.fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) Per Google translate is the headline of the article. Does anyone have more worthwhile tidbits from the article that are translated? “The State wishes to classify the Jurassic cliffs of Calvados as a national nature reserve. This would imply the prohibition of all taking of plants, animals, fossils and minerals. A disaster for Villers-sur-Mer and the Paléospace who strongly oppose it. Without collecting fossils, there would be no more collection to contemplate in the museum.” See this recent article in English: https://www.thelocal.com/20220719/national-park-plan-for-northern-france-means-end-of-fossil-and-shell-collecting/ Please, what are the areas that are now off limits to collecting? Please translate. Attached is map and legend from above article. @caterpillar Edited July 20, 2022 by DPS Ammonite My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggycardon Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Is this already in effect? I know our fossil club had planned a trip to there in october or november. Interested in all things paleontology, geology, zoology, evolution, natural history and science! Professional exotic pet keeper, huge fantasy geek, explorer of the microfossil realm, member of the BVP (Belgian Association for Paleontology), Volunteer prepper at Oertijdmuseum Boxtel. View my collection topic here: The Growing Collection of Ziggycardon My animal collection at the "Members pet" topic Ziggycardon's exploration of the microfossil realm Trips to Eben Emael (Maastrichtian of Belgium) My latest fossil hunt Next project will be a dedicated prepping space. "A mind needs books as a sword needs a whetstone, if it is to keep its edge." - Tyrion Lannister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 6 minutes ago, ziggycardon said: Is this already in effect? I know our fossil club had planned a trip to there in october or november. Are you able to look at and translate part of the original article in French for clues? My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caterpillar Posted July 20, 2022 Author Share Posted July 20, 2022 1 hour ago, ziggycardon said: Is this already in effect? It is not yet effective. It's a project and the time it takes to set up (if it does) can take months or even years. But the will to ban is already there 2 http://www.paleotheque.fr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, DPS Ammonite said: “The State wishes to classify the Jurassic cliffs of Calvados as a national nature reserve. This would imply the prohibition of all taking of plants, animals, fossils and minerals. A disaster for Villers-sur-Mer and the Paléospace who strongly oppose it. Without collecting fossils, there would be no more collection to contemplate in the museum.” I thought the area was actually already considered a nature reserve, for which reason collecting by hammering into the bedrock was off limits. Also, I'm surprised to hear the Paléospace opposes it, as I think I heard it was exactly the museum's owner/founder who was in favour of the whole thing. But I can't seem to find this information back now In any case, the timeline seems to be end 2023, with all sites north of the Seine - that is, in Calvados - being affected. A more extensive discussion can be found in the below thread: Haven't read the article yet, by the way, but want to do so later today and, if I can muster the time, will also see about providing a translation... Edited July 20, 2022 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Please keep your comments from being political in nature. Please do not make sweeping generalizations about politicians or governments. If this topic cannot be discussed without these features, it will be locked. The Forum is not the place to discuss personal opinions about any governments or politicians. Facebook or Twitter are available for those kinds of discussions. Thanks for your cooperation and understanding. Tim for the Forum Staff. 3 1 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM - APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPS Ammonite Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Here are maps showing the proposed future park: https://www.normandie.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/atlas-17_proposition_reserve_ign.pdf 2 My goal is to leave no stone or fossil unturned. See my Arizona Paleontology Guide link The best single resource for Arizona paleontology anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coco Posted July 21, 2022 Share Posted July 21, 2022 Hi, Here is an automatical translation, I think it could permit you to understand the generality. Soon a ban on collecting fossils in Villers-sur-Mer? The State wants to classify the Jurassic cliffs of Calvados as a national nature reserve. This would mean a ban on all sampling of plants, animals, fossils and minerals. A catastrophe for Villers-sur-Mer and the Palaeospace who strongly oppose it. Without collecting fossils, there would be no collection to contemplate in the museum. Professional and amateur paleontologists know well the cliffs of the Black Cows located in the communes of Houlgate, Gonneville-sur-Mer, Auberville and Villers-sur-Mer in Calvados. They were formed 150 million years ago, in the Jurassic era. Professional and amateur paleontologists find all kinds of fossils: ammonites, sea urchins, nautilus, but also plesiosaurs, ichthyosaurs… An exceptional heritage and often these amateur collections enrich those of the museum of the city. But with the classification of the famous Black Cows in national nature reserve, collection will become complicated or even impossible. The city of Villers-sur-Mer and the angry Palaeospace For Thierry Granturco, mayor of Villers-sur-Mer and chairman of the board of directors of the Palaeospace, banning the collection of fossils on the beach is a very bad idea. According to him, the fossils found broke off the cliffs naturally. The town hall also intervenes so that no one goes to search the rock. Lovers of prehistoric pebbles collect their treasures directly on the beach, without damaging the place. Thierry Granturco regrets that the project does not distinguish between excavation and collection and deplores the lack of upstream discussion with the municipalities concerned. He urges the inhabitants to express themselves strongly during the public inquiry scheduled from 24 August to 16 September. The file will be available on the site of the prefecture of Calvados via the following link: https://www.normandie.developpement-durable.gouv.fr/projet-de-creation-dune-reserve-naturelle-a4158.html A derogation envisaged for the museum but not for private collectors The prefecture’s communiqué of 18 July states that "derogatory agreements with partner structures are provided for, in particular for the continuation of scientific and educational activities in connection with paleontology". The prefect added that "this possibility of convention for the collection of fossils and minerals is unprecedented because not foreseen in the other natural reserves of France". But according to Karine Boutillier, director of the Palaeospace, no collected specimen will be able to integrate a private collection. Outside it is precisely these private collections that regularly enrich the museum’s windows. Recently, the museum acquired an exceptional collection: the Bulow collection. "Mr.Bulow devoted his entire life to his collection. It is mainly made up of fossils from the cliffs of the Black Cows. He had a very good knowledge of all the fossils he found. He knew how to sort them, identify them, and he had started a dialogue with scientists that allowed him to advance studies on certain pieces, including dinosaur and pterosaur pieces. ' According to the director of the Palaeospace, such a collection could not be created if the classification project, as it is defined today, was born. Walkers not always respectful What may ask is the path that amateur paleontologists take to reach the beach. The only possible entrance to the Vaches Noires is in the town of Villers-sur-Mer. For other municipalities, treasure seekers go through the cliff, which is not a good idea. According to the mayor of Villers-sur-Mer, every year, a walker gets bogged down trying to reach the beach from the top of the cliff on the neighbouring municipalities or finds himself trapped by the tide at the bottom of the cliffs. Classify as a nature reserve to better protect In total, the State plans to classify as a national nature reserve 6 sectors representing 1900 ha and 37 kms of cliffs distributed along the coast of Calvados. A way to protect these cliffs and rocky flats by framing the uses and the means of management dedicated. Note that: traffic on the maritime public domain and activities related to the sea will not be impacted agricultural developments will be initiated on the edge of the cliff (conversion of crops to grassland on about fifteen hectares) traffic will be permitted on marked pedestrian paths, and according to a revised circulation for bicycles and horses hunting activities will be maintained, including for purposes of regulating large wildlife the degradation of the soil and in particular the artificialization will be prohibited (the classified spaces are already areas inconstructible with regard to the planning documents) the right of the owners will be respected (access and enjoyment). Coco 3 2 ---------------------- OUTIL POUR MESURER VOS FOSSILES : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 1 (Poissons et sélaciens récents & fossiles) : ici Ma bibliothèque PDF 2 (Animaux vivants - sans poissons ni sélaciens) : ici Mâchoires sélaciennes récentes : ici Hétérodontiques et sélaciens : ici Oeufs sélaciens récents : ici Otolithes de poissons récents ! ici Un Greg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) That much more is at stake here than just the Calvados coast becomes clear from the below newspaper article I came across here. Quote The Caps et Marais d'Opale Park wants to valorize its geological heritage Le Wast. Welcomed at the Maison du Parc at the Manoir du Huisbois by Sophie Warot-Lemaire, the current president, and Philippe Leleu, in office until 2021. Michaël Waber, president of the Federation of Regional Natural Parks of France and a native of the Vosges, also met with the Park's elected officials and technicians on major issues and key actions. CHARTER TO BE RENEWED IN 2028 The Caps et Marais d'Opale Natural Park is made up of the Audomarois marsh, which is an example of long-term work to preserve the last inhabited and cultivated marsh in France. A wetland, a UNESCO biosphere reserve, benefits from rigorous management of its water resources. Alongside this jewel, other sites in the park are the subject of a landscape preservation approach, such as the coastline subject to erosion as much as to land pressure or the Boulogne grove now winner of a landscape plan, like the Marquise quarry basin. This visit took place halfway through the charter, which will be renewed in 2028, in the hope of obtaining the Geopark label in 2023, which is awarded to territories with a remarkable geological heritage and which carry out a project for the enhancement and protection of their geological heritage. During this visit, the Park also intended to set an example in terms of construction with the eco-renovation carried out from 2017 to 2021 at the Maison du Parc in Le Wast based on bio-sourced materials, with a more economical building. which mainly uses renewable energies: wood, sun, wind. While this doesn't necessarily imply similar measures will be put in place at the Opal Coast, the stretch of coast this park spans exactly contains numerous of the most significant find localities along that coast. (source) @Manticocerasman @sjaak Edited August 29, 2022 by pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 As might have been expected, a petition has (luckily) been put forward, which I urge anyone concerned with or about current developments along the Calvados-coast to sign. The petition itself is in French, but I've enclosed an English translation below. Quote Open letter concerning the National Nature Reserve project on the Jurassic cliffs of Calvados Addressed to: the Prefecture of Calvados, CERSA DREAL Normandy the municipalities concerned users of the coast Dear Sir or Madam, Collect’if is a group of scientists, teachers, geology enthusiasts and coastal users. We are delighted with the establishment of a national nature reserve on the Jurassic cliffs of Calvados. On the other hand, we are against the ban on the “collection of loose fossils and minerals on the maritime public domain” which poses more problems than it solves. The "possible derogations within the framework of scientific and/or educational partnerships" add complex procedures which amount to a pure prohibition for most people, a brake on the popularization of Earth sciences. We believe that the orientation for “maintaining the integrity of the geological and palaeontological heritage” of this reserve project will most likely have the opposite effect. We understand the need to protect deposits and cliffs from destruction and oblivion. We don't see how the collection ban will serve this purpose. Collecting by amateurs has never dried up the stock of fossils. Rather, it contributed to the collections of palaeontology museums. It is by saving the fossils from erosion that public interest in the geological and palaeontological heritage of these sites was born and grew. Collecting fossils on the foreshore is a historical practice that contributes to: the national and international reputation of the site, the touristic attraction of the coast, the dissemination of participatory science, a playful awareness of natural sciences for young generations who need to confront reality to fight against pseudosciences and ideologies, to the wonder of discovery, the emergence of scientific and naturalist vocations, to save fossils that can be scientifically exploited, safety and observation of the evolution of the site due to the vigilance of amateurs who report anomalies (faults, landslides, shells, ropes, etc.). Prohibiting the collection of fossils would, on the contrary, lead to: loss of tourist attraction of the site, a loss of the geological and palaeontological heritage which will be destroyed by erosion, the loss of a marvellous educational tool of participatory natural science, a risk of the development of illegality, speculation and dangerous behaviour (harvest at night, at rising tide, etc.), a disinterest of the public for an impracticable discipline. A scrapping of palaeontology that leaves the field of sensory experience to become a “museum” science, the loss of a tool against pseudosciences such as creationism, fewer scientific discoveries, less surveillance of the coast. Since we are in phase 2 of the project which will take place in 2022 and as part of the public inquiry stage, we ask to participate in the discussion. Instead of a prohibition measure that we consider retrograde and counterproductive, we propose: A tolerance for ethical collection on the model of the West Dorset Code of Conduct which also concerns Jurassic layers. In English to copy and paste into your browser: https://jurassiccoast.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/West-Dorset-Fossil-Collecting-Code-of-Conduct.pdf French translation to copy and paste into your browser: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1X-XTphL5HDG2Xu4zkSiqoMugdx_RTjnB/view?usp=sharing Educational panels and legal reminders to raise public awareness. The establishment of a referent for each site that users can contact to report a discovery or a danger. The members of Collect'if. To support the Collect'if, you can sign below @taj @Pixpaleosky @FossilDAWG 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) Thanks Pachy. These well intended but unproportional measures seem to spread across Europe. Would be a pity if collecting is prohibited. I will sign the petition. Maybe you could post something on Paleontologica as well? Edited August 29, 2022 by sjaak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 Hey Pachy Tx for the heads up ! I signed it ; or its cousin some time ago . Also published my comments on the " Registre d 'enquete publique" . I have few hopes though ... I think a lot of politicians are trying to buy themselves a cheap badge of greenwashed honor by endorsing such initiatives,while at the same time pushing rather detrimental policies. They sure hope the left hand will wash the right hand... Let's see . Being grounded this summer , I was not able to visit, so now let's shift this to the end of year , with the big tides , which could be very interesting , unless.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 7 hours ago, taj said: Tx for the heads up ! I signed it ; or its cousin some time ago . Also published my comments on the " Registre d 'enquete publique" . I have few hopes though ... I think a lot of politicians are trying to buy themselves a cheap badge of greenwashed honor by endorsing such initiatives,while at the same time pushing rather detrimental policies. They sure hope the left hand will wash the right hand... Let's see . Being grounded this summer , I was not able to visit, so now let's shift this to the end of year , with the big tides , which could be very interesting , unless.... Yeah, I too hold little hope. And like you, the international move has bogged me down. So all I can do now is hope to be able to visit somewhere later this year, though the outlook is not so good. If not this year, then my chances will probably have disappeared for good, though The problem with this initiative is that it will not just give other fossil-rich coastal regions ideas, but also that those people who used to Calvados to look for fossils will now be offset to those other areas where fossil hunting is still possible, reducing find density and increasing pressure on local politicians there as well... Not good, not good at all 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 To give you some recent bits of news ,and to understand the position of the french administration in this matter ,the city of Villers has publicly displayed its opposition to the project ( FB ,etc ...) . They clearly stand to loose quite a bit if fossil tourism takes a hit (plus they might genuinely understand more about the issues, who knows?) .As a consequence , they have been banned ( nothing official , of course , but in a very practical way) from the public enquiry : there will be no physical register to record public opinion in Villers ( as opposed to the other cities close to the other sites in the reserve ). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted September 4, 2022 Share Posted September 4, 2022 Wow! My god! That's not democracy... I mean: "You're in opposition? That's a valid opinion, that we can now safely ignore..." 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 If you think that's the end of it , you're in for a treat . The public enquiry ended today at noon french time . At noon +1 mn all contributions (public) were removed from the public enquiry website. That's close to 900 contributions , some pretty windy , most very well elaborated , 99,..% against the project . At the same time , the full (documented) proposed plan for the reserve was no more accessible on the official website . Can't wait for next step .... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Man! They're really set on pushing these plans through even in the wake of huge public outcry, aren't they!?! I can't even see how that would benefit them politically... 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taj Posted October 26, 2022 Share Posted October 26, 2022 The result of the consultation has been posted . ( for those interested , here : https://www.calvados.gouv.fr/rapport-d- ... 10603.html). As expected , and despite an overwhelming majority of voices ( cities, cities aggregates , people) against the ban on collecting fossils , this has been quickly swept under the rug : not even a debate . So total ban it will be . And there is money in the project , they will finally hire 4 people to patrol the area and fine tourists ( 160 Keuros / year). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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