Juvenile Psittacosaurus - real or fake?

[Tressmeister]

Hi everyone!

 

I would like to know your opinions on the following Psittacosaurus mongoliensis specimen.

 

Found in Liaoning, China. Size about 20cm long and ~1kg heavy.

 

I see there's quite a lot of glue/consolidant here. 

I know some are carved and many are composites but I would like to know your opinions. 

Is this real or fake?

 

Your input is highly appreciated. Cheers!  

 

 

 

[Troodon]

First, if its from Liaoning its most likely the Yixian Formation.  So the described Psittacosaurus from that locality is P. lujiatunensis not the one identified.

This is most likely a composite skeleton that was placed on the slab very typical of those on the open market.

The images provided does not allow one to evaluate the skull or limb bones to determine authenticity.  On the surface the skull is a bit off what is shown in the holotype of this species.  The ribs look off too straight and too many long ones.  Legs also look like they are different lengths, might just be the angle of photo.

Weight is immaterial but I'm guessing its all in the slab.

 

[Jacobloven]

I agree with Troodon. A few things feels off with it. For me it’s always a red flag when things this small and delicate are as complete and articulated as this one. If genuine, then whoever worked on it is highly skilled.

 

Also, the fossilised bone looks almost slightly transparent where it’s been tooled.

[Troodon]

Agree, the vertebrae look a bit translucent not sure if that glue, printed or glossy bone.  These type of skeleton should be hand inspected since photos rarely tell the entire story.

[Tressmeister]

Thanks @Troodonand @Jacobloven.

 

The P. mongoliensis was my bad . Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Owner said it's heavily restored with glue, as juvenile bones are very fragile and easily break when cleaned. He also said that 90% is real bone, from one specimen. The glue part makes sense... but I don't think I agree with that "90%" part, especially after your comments.  

[Jacobloven]

@Tressmeister Glad to help 

[AlaskaNick]

This looks like it was carved to me, at least most of it. If not, whoever was working the dremel took off quite a bit of bone... 

[Randyw]

I could very easily be wrong but I’m voting for fake. Theres no seperation in the vertabrae and I’m not seeing any sutures in the skull…. Vertabra and hip bones are all one piece….. etc

Edited August 4, 2022 by Randyw

[piranha]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:22 AM, Troodon said:

First, if its from Liaoning its most likely the Yixian Formation.  So the described Psittacosaurus from that locality is P. lujiatunensis not the one identified.

 

If it was found in Liaoning Province, I'm curious why it would most likely be from the Yixian Formation? 

 

Psittacosaurus meileyingensis and Psittacosaurus mongoliensis are also found in the Jiufotang Formation in Liaoning Province:

 

"Psittacosaurus meileyingensis is known only from the type locality near Chaoyoung in Liaoning Province, northeastern China. As noted above, a relatively complete skull of P. mongoliensis was recovered in the vicinity of the type locality. The presence of P. mongoliensis in the same beds (Jiufotang Formation) and, apparently, very near the locality of P. meileyingensis suggests, but does not yet establish unequivocally, the coexistence of P. mongoliensis and P. meileyingensis in northeastern China during the Early Cretaceous."

 

Sereno, P.C., Shichin, C., Zhengwu, C., Chenggang, R. 1988

Psittacosaurus meileyingensis (Ornithischia: Ceratopsia), A New Psittacosaur from the Lower Cretaceous of Northeastern China.

Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 8(4):366-377  PDF LINK

[piranha]

Including Psittacosaurus major, there are a total of four species from Liaoning Province.

 

 

Sereno, P.C. 2010

Taxonomy, Cranial Morphology, and Relationships of Parrot-Beaked Dinosaurs (Ceratopsia: Psittacosaurus).

In: New Perspectives on Horned Dinosaurs: The Royal Tyrrell Museum Ceratopsian Symposium [pp. 21-57]

Indiana University Press: Bloomington and Indianapolis, 624 pp.