After 90 million years . . .

[Metafossical]

 

Newbie notes

 

I found the scapula during my last outing.  The humerus I found many months ago.  I didn't know it was humerus when I found it, but I thought it was a fossil.  While I was taking a fossil inventory, these two came together again  . . .  after 90 million years.  You can't see it in the photo, but they are connected quantumly.

 

The "paddle bones" were dark, smooth and easy to spot. I've got a few more here.

 

Who would have thought that putting them together could be as much fun as finding them. 

 

~

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnJ]

Congratulations on the scapula find!  Photos at right angles are most informative.

 

I do not think the other piece is a humerus.

 

Edit:  The scapula initially resembles one from a Platecarpus.

[Metafossical]

10 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

Congratulations on the scapula find!  Photos at right angles are most informative.

 

I do not think the other piece is a humerus.

 

Thanks for the reply and compliment.

 

I posted a photo set of the scapula some time ago.  I referenced the Grigoriev diagram to determine humerus  . . .

Edited August 11, 2022 by Metafossical
mispelled Grigoriev

[JohnJ]

I forgot that you posted the scapula before.

 

That diagram is not useful to identify skeletal elements other than the general morphology of vertebrae.

[rocket]

Interesting find

I do not think that they belong together, different position or different animals. 

Platecarpus, hmmmm. Not easy to identify with a partly eroded scapula. You wrote "90 Million Years", thats middle turonian. Do you have the exact stratigraphic position (its Niobrara?)? Platecarpus comes up in lower turonian (I do not believe in the cenomanian remains I have seen), possible. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by rocket

[JohnJ]

3 hours ago, rocket said:

Platecarpus, hmmmm. Not easy to identify with a partly eroded scapula.

 

I suggested the photos resembled Platecarpus.  The OP found these in the Campanian aged Ozan Formation; so the title is a bit of a misnomer.  

 

 

@Metafossical's specimen from the link in my previous post.

[rocket]

would fit 

[jpc]

I am also unsure of it humerusness

[Metafossical]

On 8/11/2022 at 4:15 PM, rocket said:

Interesting find

I do not think that they belong together, different position or different animals. 

Platecarpus, hmmmm. Not easy to identify with a partly eroded scapula. You wrote "90 Million Years", thats middle turonian. Do you have the exact stratigraphic position (its Niobrara?)? Platecarpus comes up in lower turonian (I do not believe in the cenomanian remains I have seen), possible. 

 

On 8/11/2022 at 7:24 PM, JohnJ said:

 

I suggested the photos resembled Platecarpus.  The OP found these in the Campanian aged Ozan Formation; so the title is a bit of a misnomer.  

 

 

@Metafossical's specimen from the link in my previous post.

 

On 8/14/2022 at 1:15 AM, jpc said:

I am also unsure of it humerusness

 

For anyone interested I've attached some photos of Tylosaurus humerusness. 

~

Here is what Yale's Russell wrote about the Tylosaur humerus:

 

The humerus of Tylosaurus is very long and slender and, compared to most other forms, only slightly expanded at the ends.  The postglenoid process is small and indistinguishable from the glenoid condyle.  All of these surfaces were finished in cartilage in life.  On the distal end of the humerus the radial tuberosity is absent, the radial and ulnar facets are indistinct and were also finished in cartilage, and the ulnar tuberosity is very small. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnJ]

Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not a mosasaur humerus.

 

 

[Metafossical]

1 minute ago, JohnJ said:

Sorry to disappoint you, but this is not a mosasaur humerus.

 

 

 

No disappointment with any new learning  . . . what do you think it is JohnJ?

[JohnJ]

4 minutes ago, Metafossical said:

 

No disappointment with any new learning  . . . what do you think it is JohnJ?

 

Based on your photos, it looks like a highly eroded piece of marine reptile bone.  It doesn't look like many original surfaces remain.

[Metafossical]

14 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

 

Based on your photos, it looks like a highly eroded piece of marine reptile bone.  It doesn't look like many original surfaces remain.

 

I'm interested in what a Tylosaur humerus looks like.

 

Do you have any photos in your database that shows this is what a Tylosaur humerus looks like?

[Metafossical]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:24 PM, JohnJ said:

 

I suggested the photos resembled Platecarpus.  The OP found these in the Campanian aged Ozan Formation; so the title is a bit of a misnomer.  

 

 

@Metafossical's specimen from the link in my previous post.

 

With respect to the scapula, if Tylosaurus or Platecarpus, here is what Yale's Russell wrote about Tylosaur scapula: 

 

 

In Platecarpus and Plioplatecarpus the glenoid articulation is a convex, ventroposteriorly facing condyle; in Tylosaurus it faces the same direction but is gently concave.  

~

For your perusal, a couple photos of Tylosaur scapula.  For further info please see:  Text-fig.45. Scapula-coracoid of Tylosaurus in Russell's Systematics.

 

[Metafossical]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:24 PM, JohnJ said:

 

I suggested the photos resembled Platecarpus.  The OP found these in the Campanian aged Ozan Formation; so the title is a bit of a misnomer.  

 

 

@Metafossical's specimen from the link in my previous post.

 

With respect to the comments in your post, “The OP found these in the Campanian aged Ozan Formation; so the title is a bit of a misnomer.”

 

 

I know very little about said “Campanian aged Ozan Formation.”

 

 

I believe I’m searching in the “condensed interval”, as shown in FIGURE. 2 B in the Polcyn / Everhart paper titled:  The Oldest North American mosasaurs from the Turonian of Kansas and Texas with comments on the radiation of major mosasaur clades,  wherein Polcyn writes,

”A distinct condensed interval occurs within the uppermost portion of the Arcadia Park Shale.  The Turonian-Coniacian boundary falls within the condensed interval just below the overlying Austin Chalk.”

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Metafossical
Attached photo of "condensed layer" . . .

[JohnJ]

2 hours ago, Metafossical said:

I believe I’m searching in the “condensed interval”, as shown in FIGURE. 2 B in the Polcyn / Everhart paper titled:  The Oldest North American mosasaurs from the Turonian of Kansas and Texas with comments on the radiation of major mosasaur clades,  wherein Polcyn writes,

”A distinct condensed interval occurs within the uppermost portion of the Arcadia Park Shale.  The Turonian-Coniacian boundary falls within the condensed interval just below the overlying Austin Chalk.”

 

HERE is geologic map that is a great reference.  You stated in your other posts that your scapula was found in the North Sulphur River.  The geology you describe above comes from much further west.  The NSR is primarily Campanian and younger.

[JohnJ]

4 hours ago, Metafossical said:

I'm interested in what a Tylosaur humerus looks like.

 

It's always good to see someone using scientific references.  Look in Dale Russell's Systematics and Morphology of American Mosasaurs for these figures.

 

 

The humerus is robust enough to retain its general morphology in the NSR environment.  Sadly, most of the images in an online search are not Tylosaur humeri. 

 

 

[JohnJ]

Note the difference in the angle on the left side of the scapula from the articulation surfaces in Russell's figures.  On the right side, the arc of the 'fan' is more elongated in Platecarpus like it is in your specimen.

 

 

On 8/11/2022 at 6:24 PM, JohnJ said:

@Metafossical's specimen from the link in my previous post.

 

[Metafossical]

On 8/17/2022 at 5:35 PM, JohnJ said:

 

It's always good to see someone using scientific references.  Look in Dale Russell's Systematics and Morphology of American Mosasaurs for these figures.

 

 

The humerus is robust enough to retain its general morphology in the NSR environment.  Sadly, most of the images in an online search are not Tylosaur humeri. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the reply and links.

 

We now have images of a Tylosaur humeri.