mr.cheese Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I have tried to have a search on the forum before posting this but there is soooo many posts on rays it is a long job! So... I have received some ray barbs and mouth plates from @Meganeura and I was just wondering if anyone could let me know the age and species of the common fossil find in the Peace river, Florida? I can post a few pictures if you want but they really are just the generic ones readily found! @Shellseekermaybe you can help? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 perhaps some pics will help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 2 hours ago, mr.cheese said: I have tried to have a search on the forum before posting this but there is soooo many posts on rays it is a long job! So... I have received some ray barbs and mouth plates from @Meganeura and I was just wondering if anyone could let me know the age and species of the common fossil find in the Peace river, Florida? I can post a few pictures if you want but they really are just the generic ones readily found! @Shellseekermaybe you can help? You can find Late Miocene and Pleistocene fossils in the Peace River and the rays can be the same across that time. I think you can find Pliocene in some spots as well. The barbs are unlikely to be identifiable to genus. A tooth plate might be identifiable to genus, but yeah, we can't help without photos. If getting photos up is a problem, you can try doing searches for "Myliobatis" and "Aetobatus." You can also try "myliobatid" and "Myliobatidae" which will pull identifications to family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 Yeah honestly I’ve never looked into the different types of rays myself - I know we have eagle rays… and that’s it. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 13 hours ago, mr.cheese said: I have tried to have a search on the forum before posting this but there is soooo many posts on rays it is a long job! So... I have received some ray barbs and mouth plates from @Meganeura and I was just wondering if anyone could let me know the age and species of the common fossil find in the Peace river, Florida? I can post a few pictures if you want but they really are just the generic ones readily found! @Shellseekermaybe you can help? Simply put, the work has not been done to analyze Stingray barbs and teeth from any part of Florida. It takes effort, time, and money to fund the research and publication. What exists, seems to be directed towards land mammal fossils from the Pleistocene , because that is easier and people are more interested in Sloths, and wolves, and horses. So, it is in the hands of Florida fossils hunters and dealers and we seem too addicted to hunting and finding to take the time to research and document. So, one of the best places to figure it out is on this Forum and on the Fossils for Sale internet. It may seem daunting to search all the threads on TFF, but @siteseer has given you a short cut.. If members use the scientific names of Stingrays, they are actually identifying the fossils found... I think that there are actually only a few common Stingray fossils that we find over and over again in the Peace River... maybe 10... Maybe the fastest way is to identify the 1st, (searching photos on this forum) posting a fossil ID treads to get the correct scientific and common name, and then a 2nd , and on and on... 10 hours ago, siteseer said: You can find Late Miocene and Pleistocene fossils in the Peace River and the rays can be the same across that time. I think you can find Pliocene in some spots as well. The barbs are unlikely to be identifiable to genus. A tooth plate might be identifiable to genus, but yeah, we can't help without photos. If getting photos up is a problem, you can try doing searches for "Myliobatis" and "Aetobatus." You can also try "myliobatid" and "Myliobatidae" which will pull identifications to family. I just did this search on the internet Aetobatus site:www.thefossilforum.com and got this set of images The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.cheese Posted August 14, 2022 Author Share Posted August 14, 2022 Wow, thank you for all the replies and advice! I have had a search and found that I believe most are Myliobatis so thank to @siteseerfor the head start. There is lots of pics of pavements of plates out there but not many of individual pieces. Most of mine are a bit rough too which doesn't help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siteseer Posted August 14, 2022 Share Posted August 14, 2022 Yeah, with isolated teeth, it's pretty much impossible to ID to genus and species. If you look at just a modern species, Myliobatis californicus, you get an idea why. Within the discussion of myliobatoid teeth found at a site in Antarctica (Welton and Zinmeister, 1980), the authors noted that a preliminary analysis of over 300 modern Myliobatis californicus jaws (collected from two populations along the central and northern California coast) revealed that the arrangement of tooth rowgroups and the number and morphology of teeth in each row are highly variable. The range of variation transcends nearly all "genetically distinct" dental patterns of other myliobatoids (including the lower but not the upper dentition of Aetobatus). Moreover, the sample includes examples of tooth variation that would also seem to cross generic boundaries even those of long-extinct forms (Igdabatis of the late Cretaceous of Niger; "Hypolophus" of the Paleocene-Eocene). Characters that had been considered to distinguish genera were found in the sample and may be more useful in separating male and female teeth or may only reflect the tooth production rate of a particular season. And just think, the authors were working with complete upper and lower jaws. If they hadn't known all of them were from one species, they would have assumed more than one species was in the sample. A fossil hunter finds mostly isolated teeth. You're lucky to find two teeth still connected. The body needs to be buried quick because the cartilaginous skeleton starts to disintegrate right after death, and even with quick burial, the teeth can separate over time so near-complete tooth plates are rare as fossils. Welton, B.J. and W.J. Zinmeister. 1980. Eocene Neoselachians from the La Meseta Formation, Seymour Island, Antarctic Peninsula. Contributions in Science 329. Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. 29 August 1980. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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