Shellseeker Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Again, a fossil from yesterday.. At 1st I thought Alligator, but now , mostly unsure. The jaw is 57 mm long and 25 mm high.. The tooth piece is 7 mm diameter and 14 mm long. I will look for comments when I wake ... 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 I think your initial assessment was correct - looks like a croc/gator tooth to me, from all the patterns I've seen! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 My impression is your find is half a mammal jaw split lengthwise. If so, the root is half of a tooth root. I would compare this fragment to your tapir jaws. 1 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 38 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: My impression is your find is half a mammal jaw split lengthwise. If so, the root is half of a tooth root. I would compare this fragment to your tapir jaws. Thanks Harry, I just went out, put the kayak in, and tried paddling upstream, but turned back in 50 feet. This current coming back would have been difficult to navigate. . So, I am back home reading your response. Thinking about what shows as a broken root, I was wondering about sloth, but tapir may be a better fit... This is pretty small . I will try to find size comparisons just to gauge how large the mammal was.... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Meganeura said: I think your initial assessment was correct - looks like a croc/gator tooth to me, from all the patterns I've seen! Daniel, The reason I backed off of Gator, was on re_examination, multiple things seemed inconsistent with my experience with gator jaw and teeth.. In my 4th photo, the texture of the bone seemed more mammal than gator... In the 5th photo, look at that alveoli goes to a point ??? Gator alveoli do not .... Something had to be wrong, and when that occurs, usually it is my first impression. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 21 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Daniel, The reason I backed off of Gator, was on re_examination, multiple things seemed inconsistent with my experience with gator jaw and teeth.. In my 4th photo, the texture of the bone seemed more mammal than gator... In the 5th photo, look at that alveoli goes to a point ??? Gator alveoli do not .... Something had to be wrong, and when that occurs, usually it is my first impression. I see that now! Also - besides a possible tapir, what about possibly camel? The root reminds me of the bottom of camel incisors i've seen. I'm not sure how well the size fits, though. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 26, 2022 Author Share Posted August 26, 2022 In this thread I was trying to also identify a jaw section that included a similar broken tooth. Both jaw sections came from approximately the same location. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/115336-a-chunk-of-jaw-with-a-broken-tooth/ Read the above thread and note the similarities to my most recent find. Deja vu all over again. I now believe that this newest find is a lower jaw molar from a tapir. Due to the small size, I am wondering what species this tapir is... Quote Tapirus haysii does co-occur with a smaller species of Tapirus in the late Blancan (very early Pleistocene) of Florida: Tapirus lundeliusi. During that interval Tapirus haysii is much less common than the smaller Tapirus lundeliusi (Hulbert, 2010). Tapirus haysii became more common following the extinction of Tapirus lundeliusi. The chronologic range of Tapirus haysii in Florida as listed in Hulbert (1995) omitted late Blancan records. https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/florida-vertebrate-fossils/species/tapirus-haysii/ This is EXCITING !!! I wonder if this is Tapirus lundeliusi based on size alone.... I guess it is time to send the photos to Richard... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digit Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 7 hours ago, Shellseeker said: I just went out, put the kayak in, and tried paddling upstream, but turned back in 50 feet. This current coming back would have been difficult to navigate. . Ah, so you're not THAT crazy after all. I know it takes a lot to keep you from your river. I'm sure you'll find a place you can scratch that itch soon. Be safe out there! The jaw in question doesn't seem to have the texture for a gator jaw. The partial tooth in the socket is not round enough and too solid to seem like gator so I'll tag on (a bit late) and suggest mammal options as well. Cheers. -Ken 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, digit said: Ah, so you're not THAT crazy after all. I know it takes a lot to keep you from your river. I'm sure you'll find a place you can scratch that itch soon. Be safe out there! The jaw in question doesn't seem to have the texture for a gator jaw. The partial tooth in the socket is not round enough and too solid to seem like gator so I'll tag on (a bit late) and suggest mammal options as well. Cheers. -Ken Running fast as I can, Ken, enjoying every minute. Think about how much I am enjoying this broken bit of bone. The 2 crescents on the right, which Richard identified as Tapir are 14 mm and 10.9 mm in height. The new one on the left is 7 mm. Richard has a Bulletin out there... I am hoping for...unnamed. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 @digit Ken, Here is what surprised me this morning.. I checked before I went to sleep last night.. Flow rate moving from 10 to 160 cfps while I was sleeping... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 11 hours ago, Shellseeker said: @digit Ken, Here is what surprised me this morning.. I checked before I went to sleep last night.. Flow rate moving from 10 to 160 cfps while I was sleeping... I’m not sure if I should be impressed with myself or worried that I knew exactly which water level gauge this is based on just the flow rate… Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted August 27, 2022 Author Share Posted August 27, 2022 Some you win, some you lose... sometimes you just break even. Quote [External Email] In May of 2021, you Identified a Tapir jaw section and broken tooth for me. I was amazed.. "I think this is a fragment from the posterior portion of a mandible from a tapir. The root embedded in the jawbone is the posterior root of the third molar. A portion of the alveolus for anterior root is preserved. With this interpretation, the actual tooth length would have been greater than its width. The ID of tapir is based on the cross-sectional shape of the preserved root. The third molars of most other herbivores such as peccaries, llamas, bison, and horse have an extension to the posterior end of the tooth, which is also expressed in the shape of the root. Tapirs do not have such a feature on their third molars. Richard " 1st Attachment.. the semicircles of the broken root were 14 and 10.8 mm respectively. Sunday , I was hunting the same site and found this badly broken piece of a mandible. The half semicircle in this case is 7 mm across, much smaller. I think it is tapir again... Your insights are always greatly appreciated. Quote Maybe, but too fragmentary to be certain. Richard 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Some you win, some you lose... sometimes you just break even. Or just break, in the case of this jaw Unfortunate that he can’t ID it though. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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