Unidentified possible dinosaur claw

[Brittan Moore]

A guy I traded with gave me this possible dinosaur claw. I'm trying determine if it's a dinosaur claw. He said he was snorkeling in hell creek and found it. It's about 5 inches give or take. It's heavy and It has a blood groove on one side which only dinosaur claws have and the other has grooves or grains of bone like look and feel. It resembles a dinosaur claw and the patina on it, brown like, would be the result of being underwater for a long time. Please some help here determining this is a dinosaur claw or something else. Thanks.

Brittan 

Edited August 30, 2022 by Brittan Moore

[Kane]

It’s actually the other way around: if it gives off the smell of burning hair, it is modern since that suggests the presence of collagen, which does not survive the petrification process.

[Troodon]

Sorry not a fossil just a suggestivly shaped rock.

[Brittan Moore]

2 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Sorry not a fossil just a suggestivly shaped rock.

How do you know for sure?

[Brittan Moore]

5 minutes ago, Kane said:

It’s actually the other way around: if it gives off the smell of burning hair, it is modern since that suggests the presence of collagen, which does not survive the petrification process.

Maybe I just smelled the flame. 

[Scylla]

It does not look like a claw to me. There is no texture of bone.

[rocket]

sorry to say, it is a nice stone, but only a stone, polished by nature (water or sandblast due to wind)

 

[Troodon]

54 minutes ago, Brittan Moore said:

How do you know for sure?

Have a little experience with HC claws see attached topic, why you came to the forum for advice.. The morphology is not correct, no bone texture. BTW not heard of anyone snorkeling to find HC deposits.  Most finds are in badlands and require digging or surface collecting.  Interested to find out where? Montana, Fort Peck Lake?

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/68233-identification-of-clawsunguals-from-the-hell-creeklance-formations/

[Brittan Moore]

28 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Have a little experience with HC claws see attached topic, why you came to the forum for advice.. The morphology is not correct, no bone texture. BTW not heard of anyone snorkeling to find HC deposits.  Most finds are in badlands and require digging or surface collecting.  Interested to find out where? Montana, Fort Peck Lake?

 

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/68233-identification-of-clawsunguals-from-the-hell-creeklance-formations

 He wasn't looking for fossils, he just came across it 

[hadrosauridae]

No bone texture, no claw shape, no blood groove.  Just a rock.

[Troodon]

6 minutes ago, Brittan Moore said:

 He wasn't looking for fossils, he just came across it 

Thanks, Fossils like those in the HC do not last long in water.   

[Brittan Moore]

You can't determine how long they last. It's been thousands apon thousands of years. You can't put a date on how long something last unless you've actually seen it deteriorate. Which is impossible. So you can't say they didn't last long when you don't know.

[Kane]

7 minutes ago, Brittan Moore said:

You can't determine how long they last. It's been thousands apon thousands of years. You can't put a date on how long something last unless you've actually seen it deteriorate. Which is impossible. So you can't say they didn't last long when you don't know.

The process of erosion via water can be fairly rapid, pending force and consistency of flow, as well as the nature of the rock itself.

[Troodon]

In water not long.  Dinosaur bones are buried in a deposit that encases them and created a fossil, why they last millions of years.  When they are exposed to the elements they don't last long .

[Brittan Moore]

Why are some claws and or fossils on online or museums have that kinda patina on them, a brown enamel. I researched it, they say water cases this patina.

[Kane]

24 minutes ago, Brittan Moore said:

Why are some claws and or fossils on online or museums have that kinda patina on them, a brown enamel. I researched it, they say water cases this patina.

Mineralization. Fossils from Big Brook, NJ demonstrate this well, and the process can occur quite quickly once the specimen is exposed to water from the strata in which it was once encased.

[Troodon]

Not exactly sure of what patina you are talking about.  However a lot of fossils in the HC are found in channel deposits.  These were once streams were dinosaurs would perish and the bones would be buried by the silt/sand and begin the process to fossilize the bones.    Again the dinosaur caracass/skeletons are exposed to water and those bones that are fortunate to be buried turn into the fossils you see but they must be buried.  The color or patina you see on the bones is a results of the minerals in the sediment that buries them.  The only enamel in a dinosaur are the teeth.

[Brittan Moore]

The patina is the brown like enamel on it. This would happen when the animal died and was in water. This is possible to happen especially is the bottom of a creek was stone. Being in water the fossilization process begins called premineralization. It's a process you can Google and find. This can and does happen. This process almost leaves the fossil In original form. 

[debivort]

5 minutes ago, Brittan Moore said:

The patina is the brown like enamel on it. This would happen when the animal died and was in water. This is possible to happen especially is the bottom of a creek was stone. Being in water the fossilization process begins called premineralization. It's a process you can Google and find. This can and does happen. This process almost leaves the fossil In original form. 

Respectfully, it's fine if you are trying to persuade us of the ID. An adversarial approach can be valuable. But I'd suggest hopping over to the thread Troodon posted, reading it over and then coming back to us with which species you think is a match to your specimen. 

For my part, I see none that matches your specimen, in shape or texture. I am quite sure it is a rock. Sorry, wish I had a better take for you. 

[JohnJ]

2 hours ago, Brittan Moore said:

He said he was snorkeling in hell creek and found it.

 

Can you elaborate on these unique circumstances of discovery?  Did you remember this incorrectly?  Was he confused?

[Lone Hunter]

I think the patina you are referring to is from tannins in the water which can make a brown or black coating on anything including rocks. Not sure this applies to yours, to me it looks like ironstone.

[Fin Lover]

I would recommend not trading this guy anything else, as I think he gave you some bad information.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Fin Lover

[Aussieopal]

Very interesting rock, I have 1 similar that looks more like a paddle, it even has a notched out handle! I found it in a creek in mount isa Queensland Australia.

 

Abit of advice: sitting and reading other threads on this forum has been the most valuable education that I have received when it comes to fossils and amazingly interesting rocks!! And I strongly suggest you search as many claw and hell creek related threads as possible to learn the critical identifying features you need to be on the look out for.  

 

These guys are a notch above when it comes to knowledge!! 

 

I asked one of the most random riddles that had been driving me crazy for over a week!! With in an hour of posting it I was convinced we had solved it, 24hrs later it was confirmed solved!

 

And I agree with debivort that

"An adversarial approach can be valuable" We are all humans that make mistakes especially when you only have a photo and rough geological make up to go off, but here members will happily be corrected if there is enough evidence to prove their theory wrong.

 

Sadly you have not been able to provide that evidence.

 

I wish you all the best in receiving the I'd you are hoping for and Goodluck in your future fossicking.

[Troodon]

9 hours ago, Brittan Moore said:

The patina is the brown like enamel on it. This would happen when the animal died and was in water. This is possible to happen especially is the bottom of a creek was stone. Being in water the fossilization process begins called premineralization. It's a process you can Google and find. This can and does happen. This process almost leaves the fossil In original form. 

I understand where coming from and why you believe this to be a fossil but your fossilization process is wrong.

 

Bones do not premineralize in water they need to be first covered in lots of sediment, then the process begins and its the different minerals in that sediment that give the bone the color you see and its not enamel.  Over millions of years of being buried, erosion and other factors expose deposits where these bone are found.  Dinosaurs bones do not like the elements or water and will fall apart. So its impossible for dinosaur fossil bones to be found in water.

 

[Scylla]

Water does carry the minerals into the bone during fossilization, but not stream water. Usually it is ground water. We can see fossils degrade and disintegrate before our eyes. I was recently at a site that I visit often. This is a site on private land with very limited access so if we find a fossil there we can leave it in place and come back later to extract it. Well I marked a nice 8 inch cephalopod with a 6 inch friend next to it and thought I might extract it next visit with a rock saw, but next visit it was gone. The rock was still there, but the fossil had degraded to gravel. Sometimes fossils degrade within weeks to months. Sometimes they can last many years after exposure. Rain, freeze/thaw and even oxygen exposure can degrade some of them faster than you would believe.