johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 This heavy, solid as a rock fragment is what I believe to be a skull fragment. I'm thinking Columbian mammoth? Maybe a juvenile? I have found juvenile pieces in the same area. I found this yesterday, Thursday, on a rock bank...can't even say gravel because there are sooo many rocks on the ground in this one particular area. And this appeared no different than most of what's out there when I saw it. I just so happened to look at this piece a little more carefully than anything else. Everything is covered in mud or dry dirt and green algae and many of these foramen holes were filled in by sand and small rocks. So when I picked it up I still couldn't see bone so I brought with me to clean it up a little later on and to my surprise this is what is was. But there has to be so many more possibilities for more like this in this section I found. I'm guessing it's the lower back end of the skull? I think I had a much smaller one where occipital condyle was mentioned? I didn't know how to orient this to take pics...so I just tried to get as much as I could. Also there is some cool blue colors on it in some areas the pictures may not show. I'm definitely going back tomorrow to really check this area out. But I appreciate any thoughts and if maybe bison or others might be possibilities as well. Oh, and found here in Southeast Texas...low river levels are exposing quite a bit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Your last picture looks like the place the skull would connect to the atlas vertebra. Size wise it looks like a large mammal, but I'm not sure of species. It doesn't look large enough to say it's mammoth or mastodon by size alone. You will probably need to compare features. You may try comparing it to the mastodon skull here. https://umorf.ummp.lsa.umich.edu/wp/wp-content/3d/viewerMob.html?name=B_CRA_20&extension=obj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 Yeah I wasn't sure it would be mammoth or mastodon based on the size other than a juvenile but the foramen (foramina?) are quite large and if in the 1st picture where I'm holding the bone in my hand...if that part is the thickness of the skull it's quite thick....but I have no idea really. It's fossilized...solid as a rock. I think I have others like horse that were much smaller...so bison would have been my other guess. Wouldn't even know what else to consider. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted September 22, 2022 Author Share Posted September 22, 2022 Dr. Hulbert replied to my ID request today: I don’t think I am going to do much better than you on this one, other than confirming it is a fragment from the back portion of a large mammal skull, most likely either proboscidean or ground sloth. If forced to choose between these options, I would favor the latter, but it is not certain. Richard Hulbert 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilArtwork Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 Incredible find. Very impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted September 25, 2022 Author Share Posted September 25, 2022 Thank you. I hope I can get a chance to hit this area hard and find more like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) Does anyone have an Eremotherium skull chunk that could perhaps make a comparison to this? I've seen images of the outer skull but I can fit this to it in any way. I guess whatever this chunk is...is more of the internal skull so I'm not sure what I'm looking at or how to orient this and internal skull fragments are hard to find. Yeah it might just be a scrap or a chunkosarus and that's cool...but i'm still happy with it as I am with everything I find...I'd just be happier getting closer to whether it's sloth or proboscidean. I really couldn't get a mammoth/mastodon comparison either. Thanks for any thoughts. Edited October 10, 2022 by johnnyvaldez7.jv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 Hi JohnnyValdez, I would be glad to own a piece of Eremotherium, which is not the case. But maybe these online resources may help: https://3d.si.edu/object/3d/3fc3b13c-af28-4186-8d73-5765469d8190 https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/eremotherium-laurillardi-mn-2225-v-458ab648eba3409887212f866908616a https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Skulls-of-1-Eremotherium-laurillardi-2-Eremotherium-eomigrans-3-AMU-CURS-184-cf_fig3_324979907 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-skull-of-Eremotherium-USNM-18498-in-anterior-view-A-and-posterior-14occipital_fig7_254238525 Best Regards, J 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 Thanks Mahnmut for those links! I was comparing this left occipital condyle section of the Eremotherium laurillardi 3d image and I think it matches up with what I have. I know most of what I have is internal structure but it appears to be correct. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted October 10, 2022 Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) Looks like a good fit! The problem with the big animals is, they do not fit into a CT scanner, so with whales, Mammoths, Ground sloths etc. you only get photogrammetric scans that do not show internal structure. Cool find! Edited October 10, 2022 by Mahnmut spelling 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted October 10, 2022 Author Share Posted October 10, 2022 (edited) Yeah it is pretty cool. Thanks for your help. Edited October 10, 2022 by johnnyvaldez7.jv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted November 10, 2022 Author Share Posted November 10, 2022 I was wondering if anyone might have a Mastodon or Eremotherium occipital condyle for reference? The 3D images online are a little tough to compare to...just wanted to see if anyone might have something a little clearer in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted December 27, 2022 Author Share Posted December 27, 2022 Is this considered blue vivianite on this fossil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted December 27, 2022 Share Posted December 27, 2022 Hi JohnnyValdez there are two parts to my answer: First, I learned about two years ago that according to newer analyses it is manganese and not iron (vivianite is an iron phosphate) that is the main source of color in blueish fossil bones and teeth. https://www.mindat.org/article.php/179/On+"Odontolite"+or+"Bone+Turquoise" On the other hand, there are fossils described with crystals of vivianite in their cavities, like the bivalves from Kertch and even a mammoth braincase I read about, so maybe in some cases there are traces of vivianite colouring the bone. With phosphate the main substance of bone and iron in the blood, and iron not a rare metal in the environment, it sounds plausible to me. There is at least one case described where a human skeleton was turned green by copper. ("Malachite man") Secondly, at least on my screen your fossil does not look very blue, just slightly blueish grey in spots. So I would say your fossil may contain traces of vivianite or whatever it is that turns fossils blue. Best Regards, J 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted December 27, 2022 Author Share Posted December 27, 2022 Thank you for the attached article...it's very interesting. Yeah there was a just a few spots I was questioning that appeared to have a light blue color to it. It's definitely not like the tusk and canine that were part of the "show me your blue fossil" thread that is here on TFF. Those and the others featured are incredible! Thanks for your response and giving me a new route to look at when examining my finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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