Lmsolliday Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 Do I have this right - Pufferfish mouth plates with red arrows. Next picture is reverse sides. Found in northeast Florida, Ponte Vedra Beach. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted September 20, 2022 Share Posted September 20, 2022 You are indeed correct! 1 1 Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmsolliday Posted September 20, 2022 Author Share Posted September 20, 2022 Thank you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 11 hours ago, Lmsolliday said: Pufferfish mouth plates with red arrows. Specifically from a Burrfish (Chilomycterus sp.) Image Credit Dr. R.W. Boessenecker Explainer Courtesy of Mace Brown Museum of Natural History at the College of Charleston New #fossilexplainer: know the difference between fossil pufferfish and burrfish beaks! Fossils of burrfish beaks (right) are fused in the middle and have large crushing plates. These are very common fossils along the Carolina coast, and typically belong to the genus Chilomycterus - the same as the modern striped burrfish. These are "fused beaks". Occasionally, very thick crushing plates are found - with more than 20 enamel plates - these belong instead to porcupinefish, Diodon. Porcupinefish also have fused beaks, and along with burrfish, make up the family Diodontidae (all of which have fused beaks). Diodon means "two teeth" - referring to the upper and lower beaks made up of fused teeth/plates. Pufferfish beaks, on the other hand, are actually quite rare - and are not fused at the midline. These are therefore "split beaks". They also generally lack the enamel crushing plates in the middle, are more pointed, and the beak cutting edge itself is not made of pillow-shaped beads of enamel, but thin layers. Pufferfish actually belong to a completely different family, and lack spines - the Tetraodontidae. Tetraodont means "four teeth", referring to the left and right beaks of the upper and lower jaws (four altogether). There is even an unusual species in a different family - Triodon - that has a fused lower beak but split upper beak (Triodon = "three teeth"). If you think you've found a pufferfish - you probably haven't! Fossil Explainer webcomic by Dr. R.W. Boessenecker 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmsolliday Posted September 21, 2022 Author Share Posted September 21, 2022 Ah, burr fish, then! Thanks for the info. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 7 hours ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: Specifically from a Burrfish (Chilomycterus sp.) Image Credit Dr. R.W. Boessenecker Explainer Courtesy of Mace Brown Museum of Natural History at the College of Charleston New #fossilexplainer: know the difference between fossil pufferfish and burrfish beaks! Fossils of burrfish beaks (right) are fused in the middle and have large crushing plates. These are very common fossils along the Carolina coast, and typically belong to the genus Chilomycterus - the same as the modern striped burrfish. These are "fused beaks". Occasionally, very thick crushing plates are found - with more than 20 enamel plates - these belong instead to porcupinefish, Diodon. Porcupinefish also have fused beaks, and along with burrfish, make up the family Diodontidae (all of which have fused beaks). Diodon means "two teeth" - referring to the upper and lower beaks made up of fused teeth/plates. Pufferfish beaks, on the other hand, are actually quite rare - and are not fused at the midline. These are therefore "split beaks". They also generally lack the enamel crushing plates in the middle, are more pointed, and the beak cutting edge itself is not made of pillow-shaped beads of enamel, but thin layers. Pufferfish actually belong to a completely different family, and lack spines - the Tetraodontidae. Tetraodont means "four teeth", referring to the left and right beaks of the upper and lower jaws (four altogether). There is even an unusual species in a different family - Triodon - that has a fused lower beak but split upper beak (Triodon = "three teeth"). If you think you've found a pufferfish - you probably haven't! Fossil Explainer webcomic by Dr. R.W. Boessenecker I truly didn’t know this. Been calling them burrfish for a while without truly knowing why. Also definitely found a couple porcupine mouth plates too, but no puffers. Yet. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 4 hours ago, Meganeura said: I truly didn’t know this. Yeah, it is something common in the fossil community, (well, and on the forum) and I had no idea either until the folks at the Mace Brown hit me with the knowledge. BTW this paper has some really stunning images and examples. (Chilomycterus sp. ) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181670 Cheers, Brett 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: Yeah, it is something common in the fossil community, (well, and on the forum) and I had no idea either until the folks at the Mace Brown hit me with the knowledge. BTW this paper has some really stunning images and examples. (Chilomycterus sp. ) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0181670 Cheers, Brett I do love finding them when they're quite complete - especially when it's not just the plates but also the part that extends past it. They can get to be so pretty. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Meganeura said: They can get to be so pretty. Yeah, I was super lucky on a trip to one of my spots on the Savannah River. I found this embedded in the formation (dredge spoils) in the river bank. One or two high tides later and it most likely would have been gone/destroyed. It is a lower jaw. Edited September 21, 2022 by Brett Breakin' Rocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: Yeah, I was super lucky on a trip to one of my spots on the Savannah River. I found this embedded in the formation (dredge spoils) in the river bank. One or two high tides later and it most likely would have been gone/destroyed. It is a lower jaw. Whoaaaa that's so pretty! Sure beats any of the ones I've found here in Florida - but I've got a few that come close. How can you tell it's a lower? Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Meganeura said: How can you tell it's a lower? If the little 'teeth' are preserved in the front you will see a distinct "V" shape for upper. and a more rounded "U" shape for lowers. Upper Jaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Brett Breakin' Rocks said: If the little 'teeth' are preserved in the front you will see a distinct "V" shape for upper. and a more rounded "U" shape for lowers. Upper Jaw Oooooooooooooooh that makes so much more sense! Thank you Brett - I'll definitely be able to figure it out now! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, Meganeura said: How can you tell it's a lower? In the paper I linked they also designate upper and lower for comparison. Upper Lower 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Breakin' Rocks Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Meganeura said: Oooooooooooooooh that makes so much more sense! Thank you Brett - I'll definitely be able to figure it out now! Sure .. no worries. That is what I was told (Dr. Bobby B) ? So far it has held up to scrutiny a few times. Cheers, Brett 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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