Could this be a camel tooth?

[SoozD]

Outside of strolling the beach and finding shark teeth, I am a complete novice to fossil hunting. I recently hiked the Moonshine Creek trail in the San Felasco Park, located near Gainesville, FL. I found this mysterious tooth. I thought it might be a horse tooth, but a friend thinks it could be a tooth from an extinct camel. Any ideas on what I found?

[Fossildude19]

@digit  @Harry Pristis  @Shellseeker

[Meganeura]

Well it's certainly not horse! Camel/Llama are, to my still-amateur eyes, definite possibilities. Looks too big to be deer to me.

[Shellseeker]

1 hour ago, SoozD said:

I thought it might be a horse tooth, but a friend thinks it could be a tooth from an extinct camel. Any ideas on what I found?

Here is a good Fossil Forum thread....

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/117402-camelllama-small-molar/

Camel and Llama are in the same family.  If you saw the animal,  you would identify as a Llama.  Florida Pliocene/Pleistocene has 2 common one.  Palaeolama and Hemiauchenia.

A photo of their lower jaws from Gainesville UF MNH website.  I am think an m1 lower left Palaeolama tooth. 

 

BUT.... this tooth is in such fantastic shape,  AND Bison/Bos  is a possibility...  Harry will know...  follow his identification....

[Meganeura]

4 hours ago, Shellseeker said:

Here is a good Fossil Forum thread....

http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/117402-camelllama-small-molar/

Camel and Llama are in the same family.  If you saw the animal,  you would identify as a Llama.  Florida Pliocene/Pleistocene has 2 common one.  Palaeolama and Hemiauchenia.

A photo of their lower jaws from Gainesville UF MNH website.  I am think an m1 lower left Palaeolama tooth. 

 

BUT.... this tooth is in such fantastic shape,  AND Bison/Bos  is a possibility...  Harry will know...  follow his identification....

Bison crossed my mind - but don't they have an isolated protocone? (I meant stylid) Or is that cows only/specific teeth?

Edited September 21, 2022 by Meganeura

[Harry Pristis]

I think it's a newly-erupted camelid lower cheek tooth.

[digit]

Yup. Not the right shape for a horse tooth and it is definitely an artiodactyl tooth. Your find, while fragmented, does not show the stylid that would be found on a bison tooth so it is a nice camelid tooth as mentioned above (late to the conversation).

 

http://www.fossil-treasures-of-florida.com/FossilTreasuresofFloridaNewsletter-newsletter0018.html

 

Nice tooth from the Gainesville area.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

7 hours ago, SoozD said:

Outside of strolling the beach and finding shark teeth, I am a complete novice to fossil hunting. I recently hiked the Moonshine Creek trail in the San Felasco Park, located near Gainesville, FL. I found this mysterious tooth. I thought it might be a horse tooth, but a friend thinks it could be a tooth from an extinct camel. Any ideas on what I found?

What a great find early in your career   !!!! Harry tells us that it is a newly erupted lower check tooth. I believe him !!! I think it a Palaeolama mirifica because of those little crenelations in the enamel,  but I may be wrong.

But there seems to be only 2 choices.  Palaeolama (smaller teeth) or Hemiauchenia. (larger teeth) ...Here is a research paper that has scientists attempting to differentiate these 2 species by the size , shape, characteristics of their teeth.. I hope you enjoy it. Maybe you can ID exact tooth position.

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2017/03/Vol-37-No-19.pdf

 

It is a great hobby , identifying teeth you find in a a creek...

 

[SoozD]

Wow! Thank you guys! I am so happy that I joined this forum. I can tell I am going to learn a lot and I already am loving my new hobby. 

[Shellseeker]

15 hours ago, SoozD said:

Wow! Thank you guys! I am so happy that I joined this forum. I can tell I am going to learn a lot and I already am loving my new hobby. 

There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and the lips

Coming back  faster than I anticipated... We have many Florida experts on this forum and most times they agree on an Identification,  but sometimes not... That in itself ... keeps me humble... when I may not get it correct. 

I really thought this tooth was a left lower cheek tooth of Palaeolama mirifica, uneupted and it still may be...It is an excellent paper , I pointed you to... lots of bright clear photos of Camelid lower cheek teeth in the jaw that allow comparisons.. I could not find a close match of the teeth in the research paper comparing the lower teeth of Palaeolama and Hemiauchenia. Not a comfortable feeling that I have tried hard enough...

I have an expert who many on this forum respect.  He is Dr Richard Hulbert,  retiring as Director of the Vertebrate Paleontology Lab of the University of Florida Museum of Natural History.  He has provided an identification service for Florida fossils for the past 50 years. I shall miss his help.  I decided to send your photos to Richard.

Quote

With regards to the tooth, it was not erupted and still forming inside the mandible at the time of the animal’s death. While somewhat similar to a llama lower molar, I think it is instead a lower molar of a bison or cow. As is often the case with bones or teeth with uncertain age/provenance belonging to bison or cow, the key to determining which one is if you can tell if the specimen has been fossilized or not. This is more difficult with just a crown of a tooth than with a bone. In this case the color of the specimen suggests fossil, and hence bison. Of course the color of your sheep/goat tooth also looks more like a fossil than a modern tooth, so that is not always reliable.

Richard

I can not be sure Richard is correct,  but also I can not be sure he is wrong.  We need to get an pretty much exact replica of your tooth,  from another source to find out if it is more likely Camelid  or Bison. I will attempt to do that... @Harry Pristis has a fantastic and extensive collection... and  may potentially show us a side by side...

In the meantime,  I love this hobby also and appreciate the strength of TFF.

 

[Shellseeker]

Some insights.... Comments greatly !!! appreciated.

1) I feel that the shape and surface of the tongue facing surface on the right below much more resembles Bison over Llama.  Certainly not close to an adult P. mirifica tooth.

 

Lower Juvenile Bison Jaw teeth are designated p1,p2,p3, m1, m2, m3.  Given the very distinctive occlusal surfaces of the p1, p2, p3,  I think the m1 best matches the tooth to be identified. .  Note that any stylids are almost invisible in this juvenile Pleistocene bison jaw.

 

[Harry Pristis]

I change my guess.  The distinctive "loopy" lacunae are exposed in the view of the root.  That's bovid, not camelid, I now see.

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

I change my guess.  The distinctive "loopy" lacunae is exposed in the view of the root.  That's bovid, not camelid, I now see.

Thanks Harry, I really had to get you on board.. You are so much better at recognizing slight differences between Llama, Bison, Bovid, Rhino.... it's those extra decades.