Ankylosaurus skull piece and scute?

[Per Christian]

I ended up buying this piece, and probably should have posted it here before i did that.. but here are two fossils listed as Ankylosaurus skull piece and scute. Can anyone here give their opinion on it? I don't have county, but it's from the hell creek formation, south Dakota. The largest piece is 10 cm long.

 

@Troodon

[Nanotyrannus35]

The Ankylosaurus scute in the third picture looks like a piece of turtle shell.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Nanotyrannus35

[Troodon]

First the term scute is a misnomer, the armor boney plates are osteoderm.  Scutes are keratinous sheats that cover osteoderms.

Can you post straight in photos of these specimen.  Like to see all sides.  What is the third photo?

[Troodon]

20 minutes ago, Nanotyrannus35 said:

The Ankylosaurus scute looks like a piece of turtle shell.

 

Example of one of my Ankylosaurus osteoderm and key characteristics of this one

 

[Dino Dad 81]

Got my fingers crossed for you on that skull piece. Maybe it's one of those protrusions at the back of the head.

[Per Christian]

I haven't received it yet but i asked the seller for more pictures. The third picture is supposed to be an osteoderm. I'm posting more pictures of that here. Need more pictures of that as well?

[Per Christian]

3 minutes ago, Dino Dad 81 said:

Got my fingers crossed for you on that skull piece. Maybe it's one of those protrusions at the back of the head.

So am I!

[Troodon]

Will need photos of all sides.

Can you provide real images not these phone screenshots

[Per Christian]

Will do!

[Per Christian]

I went over to my computer and got the pictures now. I haven't heard from the seller yet about pictures from different angles but I'll post them here as soon as I have them. Hope these pictures help in the meantime

[jpc]

Indeed, the 'turtle shell' piece mentioned above is exactly that.  A piece of the large turtle called Basilemys which has this very distinctive texture.   Not an ankylosaur scute.  

[Per Christian]

1 minute ago, jpc said:

Indeed, the 'turtle shell' piece mentioned above is exactly that.  A piece of the large turtle called Basilemys which has this very distinctive texture.   Not an ankylosaur scute.  

Thank you! Let's see if the skull piece is a skull piece or not.. 

[Dino Dad 81]

If not a skull piece, I wonder if it could be a terminal osteoderm.

[Per Christian]

Just now, Dino Dad 81 said:

If not a skull piece, I wonder if it could be a terminal osteoderm.

That would be pretty neat 

[Troodon]

1 hour ago, jpc said:

Indeed, the 'turtle shell' piece mentioned above is exactly that.  A piece of the large turtle called Basilemys which has this very distinctive texture.   Not an ankylosaur scute.  

Hey JP help me out.  This is the texture I've been familiar with associated with a Basilemys turtle which is very different than the image with all the pitting . 

 

The pitting and 3D layering of the fibers is more typical of nodosaurs.

 

 

[Nanotyrannus35]

1 hour ago, Per Christian said:

It's this one that's turtle shell.

[Troodon]

2 minutes ago, Nanotyrannus35 said:

It's this one that's turtle shell.

Thanks we are good

[Troodon]

I think the V shaped pieces are broken sections from a larger bone and may be the ends (tips/keel) of an osteoderm.   If that's the case I would lean toward a Nodosaurid because pitting and the fibers seen on the surface  (Scheyer & Sander (2004)).

 

 

[Per Christian]

31 minutes ago, Troodon said:

I think the V shaped pieces are broken sections from a larger bone and may be the ends (tips/keel) of an osteoderm.   If that's the case I would lean toward a Nodosaurid because pitting and the fibers seen on the surface  (Scheyer & Sander (2004)).

 

 

Gotcha. These things are enough for me to cancel the transaction. Thanks guys, this has been invaluable to me. Really appreciate it