Mochaccino Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Hello, I came across this listed as a piece of Cro-Magnon skull, specifically the right parietal bone. Age seems to be Pleistocene, and it's said to be from a gravel pit in Poland. I was wondering if it looks correct and legitimate? It certainly looks like a skull bone of some sort. I did find this post that discussed another supposed Cro-Magnon bone (seems like it turned out not to be one), and there may be some legal/ethical concerns here as well. Perhaps I need to consult an anthropologist? Thanks. Edited October 23, 2022 by Mochaccino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Hunter Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 There have been long debates on here about the ethics of selling human bones. You will certainly get some opinions here and advice. Legality may depend on where it's coming from? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) It’s a human skull bone, parietal. It’s difficult to say wether this is modern or old because this part is missing characteristics such as the eyebrow or bump at the back of the skull. However, it’s not very thick or robust and has a round shape, which suggest it’s a modern human. Could still be cro-magnon, which were modern humans, but could also be much younger. I recommend that you consult a professional, maybe they could date the skull. In the Netherlands we find many early Holocene human skull material at the beaches. Collectors closely collaborate with professionals and now there is an ancient DNA project running, which could have interesting results! Edited October 23, 2022 by sjaak 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Hi Mochaccino, interesting piece, great preservation of detail... Cro Magnon is a term used for anatomically modern humans from the timespan of ca. 45000-12000 years bp in eurasia. If there are morphological differences between them and us, they are very subtle. As has been often discussed here, differentiating between a bone from a hundred years ago (or 78) and a (sub-)fossil can be very difficult too. I have got a dog skull supposedly from a Polish gravel pit and supposedly of pleistocene age, never been sure if its real, but the price was ok. Its not noticabley mineralized, so from preservation alone I could not say if its grandmas Fido or Aylas "Wolf". And I have seen similar ones for sale since then. So, as different legal and moral standards apply to a pleistocene gravel pit find and a human bone from ,lets say, the19th century, you will have to trust the seller well.. Best Regards, J 2 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sjaak said: It’s a human skull bone, parietal. It’s difficult to say wether this is modern or old because this part is missing characteristics such as the eyebrow or bump at the back of the skull. However, it’s not very thick or robust and has a round shape, which suggest it’s a modern human. Could still be cro-magnon, which were modern humans, but could also be much younger. I recommend that you consult a professional, maybe they could date the skull. In the Netherlands we find many early Holocene human skull material at the beaches. Collectors closely collaborate with professionals and now there is an ancient DNA project running, which could have interesting results! 23 minutes ago, Mahnmut said: Hi Mochaccino, interesting piece, great preservation of detail... Cro Magnon is a term used for anatomically modern humans from the timespan of ca. 45000-12000 years bp in eurasia. If there are morphological differences between them and us, they are very subtle. As has been often discussed here, differentiating between a bone from a hundred years ago (or 78) and a (sub-)fossil can be very difficult too. I have got a dog skull supposedly from a Polish gravel pit and supposedly of pleistocene age, never been sure if its real, but the price was ok. Its not noticabley mineralized, so from preservation alone I could not say if its grandmas Fido or Aylas "Wolf". And I have seen similar ones for sale since then. So, as different legal and moral standards apply to a pleistocene gravel pit find and a human bone from ,lets say, the19th century, you will have to trust the seller well.. Best Regards, J Thank you. I see, so just based on appearance it's not clear whether this is a fossil or modern. Is there someone I should consult that could potentially tell me if this is either based on the photos and info alone? Paleontologist, Anthropologist? It's obviously not my specimen so methods such as carbon dating would not be options. I don't know the seller and I don't want to be involved with actual modern human remains and the legal/moral issues, morbidity aside. Edited October 23, 2022 by Mochaccino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjaak Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Without information about the exact circumstances were it was found, I'm afraid further information will be impossible without a dating method.... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted October 23, 2022 Author Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, sjaak said: Without information about the exact circumstances were it was found, I'm afraid further information will be impossible without a dating method.... I see, well I'll see what other info the seller has. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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