Please show me your casts, replicas and fakes of Keichosaurus

[FranzBernhard]

Quite regularly, questions turn up about the authenticity of Keichosaurus fossil specimens. Until now, most, if not all, were natural, but mostly just very poorly prepped.

 

Would you like to show off "real" fakes, casts or replicas of Keichosaurus? I would like to get a feeling for them, at least from pics. If there already exists such a topic somewhere else in the forum, please put a link in this topic.

 

Thank you very much!
Franz Bernhard

[JBkansas]

Not from personal collection but this is one labeled replica online. The keiches have about 3x the normal number of ribs but otherwise might pass for real (to my amateur eye).

[FranzBernhard]

44 minutes ago, JBkansas said:

this is one labeled replica online

Wow! Thank you!

So this is technically artwork, not a replica of an existing specimen.

Franz Bernhard

[JBkansas]

1 hour ago, FranzBernhard said:

Wow! Thank you!

So this is technically artwork, not a replica of an existing specimen.

Franz Bernhard

Not sure if there a lot of high quality keich fakes out there because the real ones are so common and cheap.

 

More common for incomplete ones to be restored with paint.

[FranzBernhard]

14 hours ago, JBkansas said:

Not sure if there a lot of high quality keich fakes out there

Many people are asking if their keich specimens are fake - virtually non show up! Only poor prep and painted ones, no total fakes or replicas. That´s why I would like to see some fakes or replicas.

Franz Bernhard

 

Edited October 25, 2022 by FranzBernhard

[Randyw]

I have a replica at home but I'm at work and can't post a picture till I get home...

[Randyw]

Finally got to take a couple picks.i got it because it was cheaper then a pizza. Here you go

[Crazyhen]

Below you can see all replicas, even one with positive and negative plates.

[Randyw]

I like those! I’ve thought about repainting mine to make it easier to see.

[FranzBernhard]

2 hours ago, Randyw said:

i got it because it was cheaper then a pizza.

Thanks for sharing! I completely understand the pizza thing .

 

2 hours ago, Crazyhen said:

Below you can see all replicas, even one with positive and negative plates.

Wow, this is really good stuff, they used quite well prepped originals. And they put quite a lot of effort into the replicas, including very clean painting.

Are you able to provide one or two higher resolution pics of one of these? I would like to check out for air bubbles etc.

Thank you very much!
Franz Bernhard

[Crazyhen]

1 hour ago, FranzBernhard said:

Thanks for sharing! I completely understand the pizza thing .

 

Wow, this is really good stuff, they used quite well prepped originals. And they put quite a lot of effort into the replicas, including very clean painting.

Are you able to provide one or two higher resolution pics of one of these? I would like to check out for air bubbles etc.

Thank you very much!
Franz Bernhard

I don't have high resolution photos of the replicas, but the manufacturer said it's made of high strength plaster, and is produced by 3D printing, seems that no painting is involved.

[FranzBernhard]

9 minutes ago, Crazyhen said:

it's made of high strength plaster, and is produced by 3D printing, seems that no painting is involved.

Seems to be "real" good stuff then . Thank you!

Franz Bernhard

[Crazyhen]

17 minutes ago, FranzBernhard said:

Seems to be "real" good stuff then . Thank you!

Franz Bernhard

The same technique was used to produce the fish too, I got one replica of the fish, it's quite nice.

 

 

[aeon.rocks]

Again can't belive my eyes! If those are infact 3D printed replicas, then buying chinese fossils online, by looking at photos, should be totally avoided. Perfection of fakeing!

Edited October 26, 2022 by aeon.rocks

[Paleorunner]

On 10/25/2022 at 12:00 AM, Crazyhen said:

Below you can see all replicas, even one with positive and negative plates.

       

 

 

Oh ! these replicas are really good.
  But they will have to improve the matrix, they look very uniform in terms of color and number of veins.

[Paleorunner]

This would be a good sample, to compare the differences of the veins of a real matrix, and a replica.

 

 

[SpeedThrash]

It's crazy how hard it is to spot replicas as a beginner!

[Roses]

Reference Guide of Real and Fake Keichousaurus Skulls

@FranzBernhard 

It's taken me about six weeks longer than anticipated but here it is finally  Some of the categories are sparsely populated with examples so I may come back from time to time and add more as I find them.

 

To start, below are some excellent anatomical references from Holmes et al., "New information on the Skull of Keichousaurus hui (Reptilia: Sauropterygia) with Comments on Sauropterygian Interrelationships," Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 2008. 

 

 

A , dorsal view; B , ventral view; C , ventral view. Scale bar ס 5 mm. Abbreviations : ang , angular; art , articular; bo , basioccipital; cbr , first ceratobranchial; ch , choana; cor , coronoid; d , dentary; eo-op , coossified exoccipital-opisthotic; f , frontal; fac , facet on exoccipital for atlas; j , jugal; mprm? , medial process possibly associated with maxilla; mx , maxilla; p , parietal; part , prearticular; pm , premaxilla; po , postorbital; prf , prefrontal; q , quadrate; qf , quadrate fossa; qj , quadratojugal; sa , surangular; scf , semicircular facet on palatine; sp , splenial; so , supraoccipital; sq , squamosal; st , supratemporal; v , vomer; X + XI , foramen for cranial nerves X and XI. 

 

And a reconstructed profile of Keichousaurus' skull:

 

Positioning

 

Keichousaurus is found in two primary positions - ventral and dorsal - and the skull may look quite different depending on positioning. The easiest way to distinguish between ventral and dorsal positioning is to look for the coracoid bone (in the chest) and pubis (in the hips). These bones are typically not visible in dorsal position, or when visible are partially covered by the spinal column. Both keichousaurs pictured below are large adult males with similar preparation:

 

 

Dorsal Position

 

In dorsal position the large orbits (eye sockets) and nares (nose holes) are visible in the skull, and frequently some small teeth can be seen at the front of the mouth. The "horns" at the back of the skull, called retroarticular processes, are an extension of the lower jaw bone and may not be visible in all dorsal specimens depending on how thoroughly the keichousaur has been prepared.

 

Authentic Adults

(Good Preparation)

   

 

Authentic Adults

(Fair to Poor Preparation)

   

 

Authentic Hatchlings

(Various Prep Type/Quality)

 Unprepared or minimally prepared (split from matrix)

 Unprepared (split from matrix)

 Possibly prepared by grinding, exposing the higher-contrast cross section of the bones

 

Fake Adults

(Resin Replicas)

 

 

Fake Adults

(Carved and Painted Replicas)

 

 

Ventral Position

Ventral positioning is most common, and the skull of a ventral keich can look very different depending on the style and quality of preparation. Because of this wide variety it can be extremely difficult to differentiate authentic specimens from fakes/enhancements in ventral position.

 

Authentic Adults

(Good Preparation to Exterior of Lower Jaw)

 

Authentic Adults

(Good Preparation to Interior of Skull)

 

 

Authentic Adults

(Fair to Poor Preparation)

 

Authentic Adults

(Retouched/Enhanced)

 This is an authentic specimen which has been poorly prepared by grinding, and someone has painted on fake teeth.

 

Authentic Hatchlings

(Various Prep Quality)

 Prepared by grinding or wire brush (exposing a cross-section of the bone) 

 Unprepared (split from matrix)

 

Fake Adults

(Resin Replicas)

I suspect that this is a cast based on the stipple pattern in the matrix and the seller's many other fakes. 

 

Fake Adults

(Carved and Painted Replicas)

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21 by Roses

[FranzBernhard]

Really great work, thank you very much, @Roses!

Franz Bernhard

[Crazyhen]

I would also like to attach the photos of some replicas, including split, for reference here.

[Coco]

Hi,

 

Very interesting.

 

Are the drawings by you? If not, it would be nice to indicate the source.

 

Coco

[Roses]

19 hours ago, Coco said:

Hi,

 

Very interesting.

 

Are the drawings by you? If not, it would be nice to indicate the source.

 

Coco

 

I'm not sure if this is a response to my comment or another, but if mine - the anatomical drawings are all from the academic paper referenced in the second paragraph: Holmes et al., "New information on the Skull of Keichousaurus hui (Reptilia: Sauropterygia) with Comments on Sauropterygian Interrelationships," Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology, 2008.

[Coco]

Hi,

 

OK. The drawings caught my eye so much that I missed the reference !  Thank you.

 

Coco

[Ezio Bonsignore]

The "Reference" above is an exceedingly useful document. As things stand today, I think it can be confidently assumed that anyone blessed with some basic knowledge should be able to quickly identify most if not all totally fake keichos produced by carving & painting, Repairs, generous "restaurations" and panting on real but poor/damaged fossils may be a more difficult proposition, particularly if one has to work on the basis of photos alone.  Fakes obtained as casts of  real specimens might be betrayed by air bubbles in the matrix or perhaps by a general "soft" appearance. But as to 3D replicas, I'm afraid there is no way.

 

Call me paranoic if you wish, but ever since buying my keicho I've been nervously scrolling the pages of all online fossil sellers I know of to check as to whether an identical specimen is being offered.  Fortunately, no "success" so far.