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Modern bone from Hawaii or Holocene?


Bguild

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Hi there,

 

My wife and I are currently honeymooning in Hawaii on the south shore of the island on Kauai over in the town Poipu. There’s limestone cliffs there and I read about Holocene aged fossils, such as bird fossils, found a few miles away at the Makauwahi Cave Reserve. I wasn’t fossil hunting, but we were walking along a public beach and there appeared to be a couple of bones eroding out of a peat deposit, near a limestone cliff. I’m not so good with distinguishing more modern fossils such as Holocene or Pleistocene.
 

Any idea if this bone is modern or fossilized?


FCBE3F13-5568-46A6-AF73-9A7902457AD2.thumb.jpeg.232b3b58a9caca342dcdf6a29917a3af.jpeg
 

3DAEA877-050F-47FF-BA09-2408852BE141.thumb.jpeg.114fb948c9202caed6b43ea773aee45b.jpeg

 

looking at an old post in the Hawaii section, it does somewhat look like the fossil bird bones @Auspex posted from this area.

 


Thanks for taking a look!

Edited by Bguild
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Please post your pictures directly to the thread. Many here will not click on links for pics. I tried them and they did not work.

Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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Hmmm weird, they’re showing up for me. Maybe something was off when posting from my phone.

 

@sixgill pete how’s this? 

 

17 minutes ago, sixgill pete said:

Please post your pictures directly to the thread. Many here will not click on links for pics. I tried them and they did not work.


F97B6E51-E455-4CD5-B86D-74A4FFF960BA.thumb.jpeg.c8ce715c9c6c82ff153ef50475b876c1.jpeg


5B68FBB5-BCA7-469E-92A2-27AEE6AA7ACA.thumb.jpeg.b9a88563ed03ba936595c8633287ba3f.jpeg

Edited by Bguild
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Very nice. Looks like bird to me but am no expert. 

 

@Auspex

 

 

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Bulldozers and dirt Bulldozers and dirt
behind the trailer, my desert
Them red clay piles are heaven on earth
I get my rocks off, bulldozers and dirt

Patterson Hood; Drive-By Truckers

 

image.png.0c956e87cee523facebb6947cb34e842.png May 2016  MOTM.png.61350469b02f439fd4d5d77c2c69da85.png.a47e14d65deb3f8b242019b3a81d8160.png.b42a25e3438348310ba19ce6852f50c1.png May 2012 IPFOTM5.png.fb4f2a268e315c58c5980ed865b39e1f.png.1721b8912c45105152ac70b0ae8303c3.png.2b6263683ee32421d97e7fa481bd418a.pngAug 2013, May 2016, Apr 2020 VFOTM.png.f1b09c78bf88298b009b0da14ef44cf0.png.af5065d0585e85f4accd8b291bf0cc2e.png.72a83362710033c9bdc8510be7454b66.png.9171036128e7f95de57b6a0f03c491da.png Oct 2022

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It’s definitely a bird leg bone. Without knowing if it came out of a Pleistocene deposit, I’d assume it’s modern. But there is certainly some uncertainty there. 

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Sounds like a great honeymoon!

I agree with tarsometatarsus.

Especially on Hawaii I think even relatively recent bird bones could be of interest, as a lot of endemic species went extinct there in the last 1000 years.

Best Regards,

J

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Try to learn something about everything and everything about something

Thomas Henry Huxley

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Happy honeymoon!

I agree with tarsometatarus and Mahnmut, more modern. Hawaii is a new island, so most of the bones should me modern

You can check it (if you like...) with your tongue..., if it sticks its modern, if it does not it could be old or fossil

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1 hour ago, rocket said:

You can check it (if you like...) with your tongue..., if it sticks its modern, if it does not it could be old or fossil

Not a test I plan to do, but I thought it was the other way around...that sticking could indicate fossilized bone.  Why would modern bone stick but not fossilized?   

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Fin Lover

 

image.png.e69a5608098eeb4cd7d1fc5feb4dad1e.png image.png.e6c66193c1b85b1b775526eb958f72df.png

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My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs.

 

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Fossil in that case is meant to mean permineralized, which closes the porous structure, wouldnt apply to a subfossil bone from a peat deposit.

Best Regards,

J

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Try to learn something about everything and everything about something

Thomas Henry Huxley

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Please refer to my posts from a few weeks back bout Hawaiian fossils, though mine were from Oahu

 

Hawaii fossils

 

The distinctions between fossil, proto-fossil, and recent in Hawaii are subtle, and one cannot often tell by preservation alone.  Several of the bird bones that I have found, which I plucked out of the formation (and thus know their age), still appear "recent"

 

Based upon your descriptipn: "bones eroding out of a peat deposit, near a limestone cliff", sounds recent, but they could also be reworked.

 

PS. your bone is definitely bird, likely tarsometatarsus, as noted

Edited by hemipristis
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'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.'

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3 minutes ago, hemipristis said:

Please refer to my posts from a few weeks back bout Hawaiian fossils, though mine were from Oahu

 

Hawaii fossils

 

 

 

oh, wow, did not see, very interesting, thanks for sharing

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Just an fyi

Screenshot_20221027_052016_Chrome.thumb.jpg.ce43b0e28905278f97df2b00a74171e4.jpg

The Evolution of Life on Earth Set the Stage for Evolution in Hawaii
Olson S.
Washington (DC): National Academies Press (US); 2004.

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In looking through B. Miles Gilbert's Avian Osteology it is a left tarsometatarsus and the closest match seems to be a Gull (not surprising given the location), something from the family Laridae.  How long is it?  In the 60 mm range plus or minus?  According to our good friends at Wikipedia, fossils from the family Laridae are known from the mid-Miocene.

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On 10/26/2022 at 9:07 PM, Harry Pristis said:

I think this is a bird tarsometatarsal, but I am not confident about bird bones.

 

 

Harry is correct, but I cannot shed any more light on it,

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"There has been an alarming increase in the number of things I know nothing about." - Ashleigh Ellwood Brilliant

“Try to learn something about everything and everything about something.” - Thomas Henry Huxley

>Paleontology is an evolving science.

>May your wonders never cease!

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