New Abrasive Setup - Where To Get Media?

[Daveos]

Hi everyone.

New here, been lurking for a while. Drew some inspiration from what I've seen others post to build an air abrasive system. Been collecting 18" unprepped green river fish for a while now. Did one with an electric tool and wasn't super happy with the results. Ready to start with abrasives for sure. Just about done building the system, need to hook up the dust collector / vacuum / and exhaust. 

 

Main question is, where can I buy some iron power and dolomite? I see dolomite for sale on Amazon ect, Is it save to use that stuff? Is there a specific supplier you all use?

 

Also, if anyone has unrpepped green river or white river stuff they want to get rid of PM me

Thanks!

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Daveos

[Kane]

You can get dolomite from pottery supply stores. Whether you acquire it there or online, you should ensure it is about 40 micron size as anything larger will likely clog the abrader. In terms of safety, yes, it is safe if you are using the dust collector / shop vac system you mention. Optionally, you can also wear a good rated dust mask (K95) while blasting. From the photo, the one thing you might be missing is a microscope, which really makes a world of difference in prep. 

[Daveos]

I have a microscope. I'm looking for some links hopefully, to order some dolomite and some iron powder? 

 

Sorry the question wasn't clear, I understand the health safety issues. I was more asking if it's safe to use iron powder and dolomite you can find on amazon - or where I can order some.

 

Cheers

Edited November 14, 2022 by Daveos

[fossilhunter21]

Hey, @Daveos. 

 

I can't really help you out with your question, but I was just going to say that you may also want to get an air scribe. You see, I have heard that abrasive machines are not super great at bulk matrix removal, you will waste a lot of powder, and time trying to remove all of the matrix with it. You can use an air scribe to remove the bulk matrix, and then use the abrasive machine to remove the rest of the rock. I don't think you would need to get something super expensive. Maybe something like the ZOIC PaleoTech Trilobite or the ZOIC PaleoTech Chicago.

 

Please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

-Micah

[hadrosauridae]

One note from your pictures, make sure your shop vac is vented outside.  You will still get micro fine dust through the vortex and through any regular filters in a shopvac.  That micro stuff is also the worst to breath.    Your setup looks good, looks basically like my first prep lab design.  You will outgrow it before long and want to change / upgrade parts but you now also have a working a system to use while you design and build new components.

 

edit to ad- I just looked again and noticed that you dont have a desiccant filter.  Running powders demands super dry air.  Youre going to need to add a drier in there between the coalescing filter and the regulator.

 

I ordered my dolomite from an online pottery supply.  I dont know if the stuff on amazon is the same or not.  I will say that I stopped using my dolomite.  Yeah, it works beautifully on my limestone encased ammonites and urchins, but it is a PIA.  Its super hydroscopic, loves to bridge in the powder tank and form clogs in your abrasive line.  Then, it coats everything in the blast box and clogs up the shop vac filter.  I recommend starting with a only a couple pounds and see how you like it before making a big order.

 

I am just transitioning to iron and havent even ordered any yet so I dont have any help for you there.  

 

The only Greenriver fish you can prep with abrasives will be bottomcap or 18" layer fish.  Split layer fish are much too fragile unless its a very large and robust fish and even then its super delicate.  I run my comco at about 1 - 2 psi on the splitlayer I'm prepping now and that can be too much at times (with bicarb!)  I'm not sure the Vaniman functions that low, at least mine didnt seem too.  I'd practice on some broken junk pieces first

Edited November 14, 2022 by hadrosauridae

[Daveos]

6 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said:

Hey, @Daveos. 

 

I can't really help you out with your question, but I was just going to say that you may also want to get an air scribe. You see, I have heard that abrasive machines are not super great at bulk matrix removal, you will waste a lot of powder, and time trying to remove all of the matrix with it. You can use an air scribe to remove the bulk matrix, and then use the abrasive machine to remove the rest of the rock. I don't think you would need to get something super expensive. Maybe something like the ZOIC PaleoTech Trilobite or the ZOIC PaleoTech Chicago.

 

Please correct me if I am incorrect.

 

-Micah

 

Thanks, this was definitely at the top of my list. Just having some trouble picking one out. Appreciate the recommendations. 

 

At this point it's a toss up between the trilobite and the microraptor: https://www.zoicpaleotech.com/products/zpt-the-microraptor?variant=33368064983103

 

Any input on these appreciated. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Daveos

[Daveos]

6 hours ago, hadrosauridae said:

One note from your pictures, make sure your shop vac is vented outside.  You will still get micro fine dust through the vortex and through any regular filters in a shopvac.  That micro stuff is also the worst to breath.    Your setup looks good, looks basically like my first prep lab design.  You will outgrow it before long and want to change / upgrade parts but you now also have a working a system to use while you design and build new components.

 

edit to ad- I just looked again and noticed that you dont have a desiccant filter.  Running powders demands super dry air.  Youre going to need to add a drier in there between the coalescing filter and the regulator.

 

I ordered my dolomite from an online pottery supply.  I dont know if the stuff on amazon is the same or not.  I will say that I stopped using my dolomite.  Yeah, it works beautifully on my limestone encased ammonites and urchins, but it is a PIA.  Its super hydroscopic, loves to bridge in the powder tank and form clogs in your abrasive line.  Then, it coats everything in the blast box and clogs up the shop vac filter.  I recommend starting with a only a couple pounds and see how you like it before making a big order.

 

I am just transitioning to iron and havent even ordered any yet so I dont have any help for you there.  

 

The only Greenriver fish you can prep with abrasives will be bottomcap or 18" layer fish.  Split layer fish are much too fragile unless its a very large and robust fish and even then its super delicate.  I run my comco at about 1 - 2 psi on the splitlayer I'm prepping now and that can be too much at times (with bicarb!)  I'm not sure the Vaniman functions that low, at least mine didnt seem too.  I'd practice on some broken junk pieces first

 

Thanks, I definitely plan to vent outside. 

 

I figured the air drier I installed would be enough, I live in the desert southwest. If it becomes a problem I'll add a desiccant drier as well. Planning on trying out iron powder first. 

 

I'm also aware that only the 18" layer fish should be prepped this way. I've only been collecting them  I'm starting to collect some white river stuff and hope to get my hands on more.

 

I ended up buying some iron powder from PaleoTools. Going to see if I can find some dolomite locally.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Cheers

Edited November 14, 2022 by Daveos

[jpc]

when talking to pottery supply places, make sure you are getting dolomite, not dolomitized limestone.  We have been shipped dolomitized limestone a few times and it just does not work very well.  I also use a soil sieve to sift the pottery supply dolomite to get rid of pieces that will clog the machine.  I think I use a #32 or 40 soil sieve.  My regular dolomite supplier recently ran out and could not find me any more so I went with a new store.  Both are in Denver.  A 50 pound bag costs about 30 bucks and almost as again as much to ship 4 hours (by car) away.  You may be able to buy lesser quantities than 50# bags.  PM me of you want the names of pottery outfits in Denver.  

  

[fossilhunter21]

17 hours ago, Daveos said:

 

Thanks, this was definitely at the top of my list. Just having some trouble picking one out. Appreciate the recommendations. 

 

At this point it's a toss up between the trilobite and the microraptor: https://www.zoicpaleotech.com/products/zpt-the-microraptor?variant=33368064983103

 

Any input on these appreciated. 

Hi, @Daveos. 

 

I think getting the Trilobite or Velociraptor would be better. The Microraptor is designed more for removing small amounts of matrix for micro prepping. The Trilobite and Velociraptor are kind of like all-rounder tools. Though, from what I see, it looks like the Velociraptor is a little better.

 

-Micah

 

[Daveos]

Thanks everyone.

 

Heeding advice, I got the trilobite and added a desiccant filter to the air supply setup. Vacuum setup is done now, everything tested and working great. Just waiting on the powered iron...

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Daveos

[fossilhunter21]

Nice setup! It looks like it will work pretty good!

 

-Micah

[Ptychodus04]

I use iron powder exclusively on GRF specimens. I buy 325 mesh powder from Art Molds and sift it through a 120 micron sieve. You will find the Vaniman blaster to like working 75-90% full. Any more and it pushes too much abrasive and clogs the tip, any less and the flow is intermittent. You also want to use their medium carbide tip (green, I can’t remember the orifice size). The larger black tip is too big for any detailed work.

 

I would also go with the Velociraptor. It’s a great scribe. Microraptor is definitely for detail work, along the likes of the Paleo Tools Micro Jacks. Also, your blast cabinet will make microscopic work difficult as it has an angled top. Your microscope will need some massive working distance to account for the angle of the glass.

[hadrosauridae]

One more thing you'll need that I cant see in your pics is lighting.  You cant have too much light.  That box is going to feel like a cave before long.

[jpc]

2 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said:

I use iron powder exclusively on GRF specimens. I buy 325 mesh powder from Art Molds and sift it through a 120 micron sieve. You will find the Vaniman blaster to like working 75-90% full. Any more and it pushes too much abrasive and clogs the tip, any less and the flow is intermittent. You also want to use their medium carbide tip (green, I can’t remember the orifice size). The larger black tip is too big for any detailed work.

 

Your microscope will need some massive working distance to account for the angle of the glass.

I agree with this last line about the glass.

 

ptych... I see ArtMolds has iron powder at 300mesh, but no 325.  Is this the stuff you use?

https://www.artmolds.com/iron-powder.html

 

[Daveos]

10 hours ago, Ptychodus04 said:

I use iron powder exclusively on GRF specimens. I buy 325 mesh powder from Art Molds and sift it through a 120 micron sieve. You will find the Vaniman blaster to like working 75-90% full. Any more and it pushes too much abrasive and clogs the tip, any less and the flow is intermittent. You also want to use their medium carbide tip (green, I can’t remember the orifice size). The larger black tip is too big for any detailed work.

 

I would also go with the Velociraptor. It’s a great scribe. Microraptor is definitely for detail work, along the likes of the Paleo Tools Micro Jacks. Also, your blast cabinet will make microscopic work difficult as it has an angled top. Your microscope will need some massive working distance to account for the angle of the glass.

 

I ended up getting iron powder from PaleoTools in UT. It arrived today, right before my 4 day shift starts haha. No prep happening this week / weekend.

 

I can see the cabinet will have issues. I already cut the gloves out but left the long sleeves. Tested with the vacuum, seems to work fine. I'm going to build a mount to work on inside of the cabinet that angles the plate like the glass is. From there I'm starting out with a 5x magnifying lighted desk lamp. See how that goes. If I need more I'll probably be using the magnifying goggles first. I've worked on Green River. Not sure I want to use a microscope yet. 

 

At some point I'll probably just build a new cabinet to work in with a flat top. For now this should work.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Daveos

[Ptychodus04]

On 11/17/2022 at 10:48 AM, jpc said:

I agree with this last line about the glass.

 

ptych... I see ArtMolds has iron powder at 300mesh, but no 325.  Is this the stuff you use?

https://www.artmolds.com/iron-powder.html

 

 

That's the stuff I use. It is listed as 300 mesh but if you look at the image it's actually 325. 

[hadrosauridae]

58 minutes ago, Ptychodus04 said:

 

That's the stuff I use. It is listed as 300 mesh but if you look at the image it's actually 325. 

 

Are you using it through your swam, or still using it with the Vaniman?  Comco says they dont recommend iron powder with the MicroBlaster units.

[Ptychodus04]

I use it in the Swam and also used in the Vaniman previously. I wouldn’t see why Comco recommends against it. Iron is easier on the internal parts than dolomite.

[jpc]

Comco also recommends not using dolomite, but it does not seem to affect their machines.  

[hadrosauridae]

1 hour ago, Ptychodus04 said:

I use it in the Swam and also used in the Vaniman previously. I wouldn’t see why Comco recommends against it. Iron is easier on the internal parts than dolomite.

 

Could the iron foul the reciprocating modulator?  I know its upstream from the media chamber, but when I tore mine down there was some media inside the modulator assembly, and I can see where electromagnets and iron could create issues.  But I may also be overthinking it.  I would much rather blast through the comco alone instead of running it and the vaniman. 

[Ptychodus04]

21 hours ago, hadrosauridae said:

 

Could the iron foul the reciprocating modulator?  I know its upstream from the media chamber, but when I tore mine down there was some media inside the modulator assembly, and I can see where electromagnets and iron could create issues.  But I may also be overthinking it.  I would much rather blast through the comco alone instead of running it and the vaniman. 

That’s a possibility. I don’t have that issue in the Swam because it uses a different type of agitator that is completely separate from any powder flow areas

[Daveos]

First impressions:

 

Very impressed with the ability of the iron powder to remove matrix without messing up the bones. This fish is in a very hard layer in the 18" layer. Had to run the iron powder up to about 30psi to get anything removed. Used a magnet to gather it for reuse, pretty simple. 

 

The glass gets dirty fast, which sucks. Hard to see. I'm waiting on a laptop stand that will hold the specimen closer to the glass at an angle for me. 

 

The trilobite is very nice. Use it to remove a lot of matrix then do the fine work with the air abrasive. 

 

All in all, pretty happy with the setup.