CDiggs Posted November 19, 2022 Share Posted November 19, 2022 Hi Fossil Forum, I found this centrum last Tuesday (Fort Bend county, TX, Beaumont Formation-Pleistocene) that has an odd hole running straight through the middle of it that I suspect is pathological. While I know isolated vertebra (and partial ones at that) are near impossible to identify, I was curious if anyone had any ideas on possible candidates for an animal it could have come from and what might have potentially caused the pathology. I'd appreciate any feedback you'd care to offer. Dimensions at the widest points are roughly 7.2cm top to bottom, 7.6cm side to side, and 5.5cm front to back. Bottom View Top View Hole from the top Hole from the bottom The hole has cortical(compact) bone on the two opposite sides, cancellous(spongy) bone on the other anterior/posterior(front/back) surfaces and doesn't show any marks that suggest it's been drilled or carved into the bone by burrowing clams or tools. It's roughly circular from the bottom and surprisingly rectangular from the top. Thanks for your time! -Cdiggs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyvaldez7.jv Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 That is unusual. Hadn't seen anything like that yet. Really cool find tho! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 On 11/19/2022 at 6:33 PM, CDiggs said: and what might have potentially caused the pathology. It's not exactly pathology, but the handle of a mallet being inserted by a human might could do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPayton Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 (edited) Great find! My first thought was mammoth because of the flattened compressed shape that's typical of their vertabral centra. Of course, it is really small for a mammoth. My next thought was maybe something like a sloth which I know have similar-looking vertebrae. It's still really small though, but that might just mean it was a juvenile or different species of ground sloth from the ones I'm familiar with. As for the hole running through the middle I'd have to say it doesn't look pathological to me. I've found many bones and bone fragments in the same area you found this one that also have unusual holes running through the middle of them. I think it's just a consequence of them spending so long in the water and the current slowly boring holes through the bone. Finding pebbles or other river rocks that have similar riverworn holes isn't too difficult so it must happen frequently. If the hole was pathological I would think there would be some sort of swelling or other unconformity in the bone surrounding the hole which I don't see here. Edited January 22, 2023 by GPayton 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Could they be rib facet attachments gone awry? I'm having a hard time telling from the photographs exactly where the holes are in relation to the rest of the centrum. Do they run laterally through the ventral base? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 12 hours ago, Rockwood said: It's not exactly pathology, but the handle of a mallet being inserted by a human might could do it. I'd love it if that was the case! However, I've had some profession archaeological experience including experimental reproduction of bone tools and I don't see any evidence of typical tool marks from post-mortem modification of bone, nor any patterned battering from repeated use as a hammer that would lead me to think it was used as a tool. 4 hours ago, GPayton said: Great find! My first thought was mammoth because of the flattened compressed shape that's typical of their vertabral centra. Of course, it is really small for a mammoth. My next thought was maybe something like a sloth which I know have similar-looking vertebrae. It's still really small though, but that might just mean it was a juvenile or different species of ground sloth from the ones I'm familiar with. As for the hole running through the middle I'd have to say it doesn't look pathological to me. I've found many bones and bone fragments in the same area you found this one that also have unusual holes running through the middle of them. I think it's just a consequence of them spending so long in the water and the current slowly boring holes through the bone. Finding pebbles or other river rocks that have similar riverworn holes isn't too difficult so it must happen frequently. If the hole was pathological I would think there would be some sort of swelling or other unconformity in the bone surrounding the hole which I don't see here. This is perhaps a better explanation of the hole than a pathology but would you expect to find cortical bone surfaces inside a post-mortem, water-worn, hole? I've seen a lot of broken centrums but never seen anything other than cancellous bone inside the centrum. 3 hours ago, Brandy Cole said: Could they be rib facet attachments gone awry? I'm having a hard time telling from the photographs exactly where the holes are in relation to the rest of the centrum. Do they run laterally through the ventral base? The hole runs diagonally from the ventral (or vertebral foramen) to the dorsal (or corpus vertebrae) surface rather than from the lateral sides where I'd expect to find rib attachment points. I don't have the centrum in hand but I'll try to take some additional photo's when I get home tonight. And I really should have started with a huge THANK YOU! for the many responses, I'd honestly not expected to see this post resurrected. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted January 22, 2023 Author Share Posted January 22, 2023 Some additional photos of the centrum; First I put a wooden dowel running through the hole with the vertebral foramen/neural arch positioned at the top of the photo. Then I used an (admittedly crappy) pocket microscope to try and take some photos of the interior texture of the hole which turned out pretty terribly compared to what I can see looking through a proper microscope but I suppose they're better than nothing... And again, thanks for taking the time to look and offer insight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 15 hours ago, Rockwood said: It's not exactly pathology, but the handle of a mallet being inserted by a human might could do it. Fossils dont make good mallets, and there is no impact evidence it was ever used as one or is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDiggs Posted January 23, 2023 Author Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Troodon said: Fossils dont make good mallets, and there is no other impact evidence or is there? Not really, only what I would expect from a river tumbled bone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Your opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 Based on the new photos, I agree with @GPayton. Looks like the type of hole that comes from wear of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 1 hour ago, CDiggs said: Then I used an (admittedly crappy) pocket microscope to try and take some photos of the interior texture of the hole which turned out pretty terribly compared to what I can see looking through a proper microscope but I suppose they're better than nothing... These sure look like tool marks to me. 1 hour ago, Troodon said: Fossils dont make good mallets, and there is no impact evidence it was ever used as one or is there? It could have been ceremonial. A stone bone might seem appropriate. Or, I wouldn't volunteer my skull to test for damage, to the mallet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilus Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 These foramen are likely natural - not man made. I've attached a copy of a shot of a megalonyx vertebra showing the foramen. The other 2 photos are of centrum that I collected some years ago from the Brazos, that I believe is likely a sloth also based on size and shape. The foramen on mine goes all the way through also. Mine is natural- no evidence of modification by man. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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