Found: Very Large Whale Vertebrae?

[JasonZBell]

Hello All,

 

This is my first time posting here, so I hope I'm doing this right. I did my best to crop the pictures I have and hope I've included what's needed. 

 

During our annual Thanksgiving trip, a friend of mine found what appears to be a large whale vertebrae on 11/26/22 in the Monterey Bay Area, between Seacliff Beach and New Brighton Beach in Aptos. Based on the known sea mammals that pass through these parts and a quick Google search, it looks to be a Humpback vertebrate, but there’s also the Blue Whale, Gray Whale, Fin Whale and Killer Whale. My guess is a Humpback, but that's just a hunch.

 

It was found about 8-10” under the sand, just after high tide. At first, he thought it might be a tree stump or part of an anchor. It was pretty far up the beach, closer to the walkway than the beach water. The surrounding sand was damp and the bone still needs to dry since it’s been under water/wet sand for who knows how long(?).

 

There is a gift shop nearby and they have fossilized bones, including one that’s a humpback vertebrae and it’s a lot smaller than the one found. It did say in the visitors center that these fossils have been found in the area that date back 2-5 million years. It seems improbable in my mind that this found one is anywhere near that old, but I’m a complete newbie to this. Thankfully, this forum looks like the ideal place to ask these questions.

 

Is there a way to tell either how old or large the whale was, based off this information?

 

Also, is there a particular method used to dry these out and get it back to its natural ivory color? I read that leaving it in the sun will bleach it, but I’m assuming that takes a while to do.

 

Here are the measurements and pictures. If more specific pictures need to be added, let me know and I'll have them snap what's needed.

 

Widest point: ~21” (side to side)

Diameter of center: ~13.5-14” (one side is a little wider than the other)

Depth: ~9.5-10”

 

 

Thank you all in advance,

Jason

Edited November 29, 2022 by JasonZBell
Adding tags

[digit]

@Boesse any thoughts?

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Mahnmut]

Hi Jason, cool find! Welcome to the forum.

If pliocene whale bones are known from the region, there is a chance that your find is one of these, the expert to tell you more has already been pinged.

Only concerning preservation: If it is a heavily mineralized fossil, it will probably be stable, if not, the salt from the sea may damage it over time, so soaking it in fresh water patiently before drying it again may help to prevent that. There may be people on the forum who know more about the specifics of that, if you do not get more advice here, ask in a museum.

Concerning colour, I´d say what you see is its natural colour, either for a fossil or for an old beach bone, though it may appear brighter when completely dry.

Bleaching may make it brighter, but will not turn it to the ivory colour you expect from a bone that has been prepped and cleaned from a freshly deceased animal.

Best Regards,

J

[JasonZBell]

6 hours ago, Mahnmut said:

Hi Jason, cool find! Welcome to the forum.

If pliocene whale bones are known from the region, there is a chance that your find is one of these, the expert to tell you more has already been pinged.

Only concerning preservation: If it is a heavily mineralized fossil, it will probably be stable, if not, the salt from the sea may damage it over time, so soaking it in fresh water patiently before drying it again may help to prevent that. There may be people on the forum who know more about the specifics of that, if you do not get more advice here, ask in a museum.

Concerning colour, I´d say what you see is its natural colour, either for a fossil or for an old beach bone, though it may appear brighter when completely dry.

Bleaching may make it brighter, but will not turn it to the ivory colour you expect from a bone that has been prepped and cleaned from a freshly deceased animal.

Best Regards,

J

Thank you for the response and I appreciate the information on how to help preserve it. To be honest, I didn’t think about how to preserve it, but it makes plenty of sense to rid it of the salt water. Also, I known absolutely nothing about fossils, so I don’t know it’s a bone from a recent death or one long ago. I too am awaiting the response from @Boesse as they seem like the expert on this from the other similar posts I’ve come across on here. Gotta love the internet for things like this! 
 

Thank you again,

Jason 

[hemipristis]

Looks very much like the large Pliocene whale vertebra from the Yorktown Fm.

 

wonderful condition! Nice find

Edited December 1, 2022 by hemipristis

[Boesse]

A caudal vertebra of a medium to large sized mysticete, but not much more can be said than that.

[JasonZBell]

3 hours ago, Boesse said:

A caudal vertebra of a medium to large sized mysticete, but not much more can be said than that.

Is there anything you’d need to see or a way to learn more about this? 

[Boesse]

Sadly, no - baleen whale vertebrae are not really diagnostic. Skulls, mandibles, earbones are needed, occasionally something more can be said if you have a well-preserved humerus or scapula.

[Sjfriend]

A couple things to help determine if newer or fossilized. One, if it's not heavy as a rock for its size it could be newer. A fossilized bone that size would be heavy!! An easy test to see if it's more fossil than bone, hold a lit lighter to it for a couple seconds. If it's bone it will stink like burnt bone (yuck), if fossilized it won't smell different at all. If it is fossilized the test won't do any damage. By the looks I'd think at least partially fossilized. If you decide you don't want it I'll be more that willing to safely get rid of it for you  Great find!

[JasonZBell]

25 minutes ago, Sjfriend said:

A couple things to help determine if newer or fossilized. One, if it's not heavy as a rock for its size it could be newer. A fossilized bone that size would be heavy!! An easy test to see if it's more fossil than bone, hold a lit lighter to it for a couple seconds. If it's bone it will stink like burnt bone (yuck), if fossilized it won't smell different at all. If it is fossilized the test won't do any damage. By the looks I'd think at least partially fossilized. If you decide you don't want it I'll be more that willing to safely get rid of it for you  Great find!

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it! 
 

It was found in damp sand and I can tell it’s definitely fossilized to some extent. How much, I don’t know. I did weigh it Before it was washed and as it was found, it weighed 44.8lbs. This didn’t really surprise me much because it’s a pretty darn big bone.

 

I can do the test, but I’ve been trying to clean/soak it in fresh water per advice from others. If you have any advice on this, that would be very helpful as well. All I’ve been told so far is to try and get the sea water out of it and then try and let it dry. I have a feeling this will take some time however since we don’t have that California sun shining right now. 

 

Thank you again for the advice!

 

Cheers,

Jason

[Sjfriend]

If it was fully dry I would leave it but if it still damp and exposed to salt water then yes, long soaks in fresh water are a good bet. Soak fully submerged for a day or 2, then swap the water and soak for a week or more and repeat. After a few water swaps let it drain then dry slowly. Wrapped in a slightly damp towel in a cool corner of a shed, garage or house let it sit and dry for as long as it takes. Don't rush it with heat or the like. If it is not solid and dries to quick it can crack badly.

[digit]

Good advice on the protocol to leach out the salt from this vert. Once the bone has had time to fully dry you might consider some consolidant. In a museum setting we'd probably use the consolidating plastic B-72 which would be dissolved in ethanol or acetone to allow the dissolved plastic to penetrate deep into the porous fossil. There is a bit of a worldwide shortage in supply of B-72 at the present and you might not wish to purchase a larger amount as this may be the only fossil you need to consolidate. An alternative method would be to use white glue (PVA, polyinyl acetate) diluted 10:1 with water to make a thin milky liquid. If you can find a tub or bucket to fit the fossil dunk it in the thinned glue solution and keep it submerged till the bubbling stops (at least 5-10 minutes). Then dry on an improvised rack and wipe up any drips. You can re-dissolve dried drips of glue with a wet cloth. Making sure the vertebrae is as salt-free as possible and consolidating it should make sure this unusual find lasts a good long time to be admired.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[JasonZBell]

15 hours ago, Sjfriend said:

If it was fully dry I would leave it but if it still damp and exposed to salt water then yes, long soaks in fresh water are a good bet. Soak fully submerged for a day or 2, then swap the water and soak for a week or more and repeat. After a few water swaps let it drain then dry slowly. Wrapped in a slightly damp towel in a cool corner of a shed, garage or house let it sit and dry for as long as it takes. Don't rush it with heat or the like. If it is not solid and dries to quick it can crack badly.

 

Thank you very much for the advice. It was a challenge to find a tub to fully submerge the bone, but it's soaking now. I'll give it a few rounds per your recommendation. Thank you again!

[JasonZBell]

5 hours ago, digit said:

Good advice on the protocol to leach out the salt from this vert. Once the bone has had time to fully dry you might consider some consolidant. In a museum setting we'd probably use the consolidating plastic B-72 which would be dissolved in ethanol or acetone to allow the dissolved plastic to penetrate deep into the porous fossil. There is a bit of a worldwide shortage in supply of B-72 at the present and you might not wish to purchase a larger amount as this may be the only fossil you need to consolidate. An alternative method would be to use white glue (PVA, polyinyl acetate) diluted 10:1 with water to make a thin milky liquid. If you can find a tub or bucket to fit the fossil dunk it in the thinned glue solution and keep it submerged till the bubbling stops (at least 5-10 minutes). Then dry on an improvised rack and wipe up any drips. You can re-dissolve dried drips of glue with a wet cloth. Making sure the vertebrae is as salt-free as possible and consolidating it should make sure this unusual find lasts a good long time to be admired.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

Excellent advice! I have plenty of PVA glue, so that won't be a problem once I can extract as much of the salt water out and let it dry. I know this is going to be a long term thing to do right, but I'm patient enough. I'm sure once I set it aside to dry for however long that takes, I will forget about it! Just wish it were summer time so it'll dry a bit more efficiently, but no complaining here!

 

Thank you Ken! I might message you down the road about the PVA glue option if I go that route. Hope that's okay. 

 

Cheers, 

Jason

[digit]

Sharing information about all things fossil related is our reason for being.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Sjfriend]

Actually, if the bone has any hidden issues you don't want to dry it in summer as it would tend to dry too fast. You want it to dry more from the inside out, so slowly is better. Also, if using a consolidant you want it really really dry inside as after you get it consolidated and dry any hidden moisture can try leaching out and turn areas of the fossil white under the consolidant (don't bother asking how i know  ) That is a whole 'nother mess to fix lol.

 

Again, congrats on a great find! Kinda jealous to be truthful only things I ever found alone beaches in Monterey was seaweed and cigarette butts 

[Boesse]

Based on the location, and the coloration/preservation, this is a modern vertebra or might be a couple centuries old at the most. Fossil vertebrae from the Purisima Formation are found on occasion but are dark brown to black in color, preserved in concretions, and typically with the processes busted off. This specimen is whole, and therefore had no preexisting fractures and also has no concretion on it.