I want to believe...

[ChrisSarahRox]

This one was found in the foothills of the Florida Mountains just south of Deming NM I have not been able to find the areas age as of yet but I will keep looking. 

 

[opalbug]

That looks like a thunder egg

I have found similar in Oregon.

 

[JohnJ]

These are variations on the same side.  Multiple angles would be useful. 

[ChrisSarahRox]

3 minutes ago, JohnJ said:

These are variations on the same side.  Multiple angles would be useful. 

You are absolutely correct, I posted ones I thought were deleted. I will post the other angles. 

[Ludwigia]

And just what is it that you want to believe?

[digit]

Definitely looks like a Thunder egg from the outside. Demming, NM would be a perfect location for those.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[ChrisSarahRox]

1 hour ago, Ludwigia said:

And just what is it that you want to believe?

I want to believe that we humans will overcome the stresses of space travel to colonize planets, I want to believe that the history of our species is far greater then what we obtusely know as fact ( I e. Gobeklitepe). And most of all I want to believe that 99 percent of the fossil record is not missing, only that we all learn to study just 1 percent. 

[digit]

1 hour ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

I want to believe that we humans will overcome the stresses of space travel to colonize planets, I want to believe that the history of our species is far greater then what we obtusely know as fact ( I e. Gobeklitepe). And most of all I want to believe that 99 percent of the fossil record is not missing, only that we all learn to study just 1 percent. 

Quite optimistic of you. I, on the other hand, am a born and bred pessimist. Till we figure out an efficient method out of this gravity well we call planet Earth I believe we will only tinker with modest near-Earth projects for the foreseeable future. Private enterprise will democratize space travel for those with the disposable income. Then again I was wrong in my predictions about YouTube, FarceBook, and several other social media sites as I underestimated the addictive tendencies of their user bases.

 

I suspect we will gradually learn more about our archaeological history as methods of excavation are refined with better technology. The same applies to the fossil record. We are no able to bring more tools to bear and are capable of extracting lots more information from the precious few fossils sites we presently have. Technology should help us to uncover more hidden fossil sites in the future. I believe that 99.99999% of all animals/plants that have ever existed leave no lingering trace for us to discover. I would not classify 99% of the fossil record "missing" but only inaccessible at present. Increased knowledge of the Earth's geologic layers and help from citizen scientists will continue to make more diversity in the fossil record available to science. The biggest obstacle to studying our fossil heritage is not lack of interest or motivation but the dismally paltry amount that our society invests in science and education. When museums struggle to keep collections curated and adequate staff on hand to study it and do research, the problem is not lack of fossils to study but lack of interest in any science that does not turn a profit.

 

Now, concerning the nicely rounded shiny rock you have posted, are you wondering if this item shows some signs of being worked by ancient humans? Nothing I've seen from the convex side of this item suggests anything other than some form of a concretion. A view of the inner surfaces might be very useful in determining the origin of this item.

 

 

 Cheers.

 

-Ken

[ChrisSarahRox]

2 hours ago, digit said:

Quite optimistic of you. I, on the other hand, am a born and bred pessimist. Till we figure out an efficient method out of this gravity well we call planet Earth I believe we will only tinker with modest near-Earth projects for the foreseeable future. Private enterprise will democratize space travel for those with the disposable income. Then again I was wrong in my predictions about YouTube, FarceBook, and several other social media sites as I underestimated the addictive tendencies of their user bases.

 

I suspect we will gradually learn more about our archaeological history as methods of excavation are refined with better technology. The same applies to the fossil record. We are no able to bring more tools to bear and are capable of extracting lots more information from the precious few fossils sites we presently have. Technology should help us to uncover more hidden fossil sites in the future. I believe that 99.99999% of all animals/plants that have ever existed leave no lingering trace for us to discover. I would not classify 99% of the fossil record "missing" but only inaccessible at present. Increased knowledge of the Earth's geologic layers and help from citizen scientists will continue to make more diversity in the fossil record available to science. The biggest obstacle to studying our fossil heritage is not lack of interest or motivation but the dismally paltry amount that our society invests in science and education. When museums struggle to keep collections curated and adequate staff on hand to study it and do research, the problem is not lack of fossils to study but lack of interest in any science that does not turn a profit.

 

Now, concerning the nicely rounded shiny rock you have posted, are you wondering if this item shows some signs of being worked by ancient humans? Nothing I've seen from the convex side of this item suggests anything other than some form of a concretion. A view of the inner surfaces might be very useful in determining the origin of this item.

 

 

 Cheers.

 

-Ken

Optimism is the source of my greatest strength and inherently my greatest weakness. I knew there would be words of opposition and I waited patiently to read then systematically dismantle such opposition, but with what I assume is your ideology this is not possible.  I find your words to be not of a pessimist but rather those of a realist, much respect sir. 

 

I still hold on to the hope that quantum leaps are an inevitable byproduct of evolutionary privileged thinkers. I predict a  paradigm shift for fossil science, I only hope to live to see it. 

 

To be correct Ken, I have not mentioned anything regarding to what I believe this rock could be (this forum has taught me well) I certainly did not believe it to be an artifact and I did upload 5 additional photos but they are not showing so I will try once more. Thank you Ken sincerely for taking the time to write such an outstanding response, in my opinion. 

[ThePhysicist]

3 hours ago, digit said:

Till we figure out an efficient method out of this gravity well we call planet Earth I believe we will only tinker with modest near-Earth projects for the foreseeable future

Guess I better keep working on that warp drive! 

[FranzBernhard]

3 hours ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

I predict a  paradigm shift for fossil science,

Would you like to share your idea with the rest of us?
Franz Bernhard

[digit]

9 hours ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

I find your words to be not of a pessimist but rather those of a realist, much respect sir. 

I've often labeled myself a 'realist' but lately that realism has taken a decidedly pessimistic downturn.

 

9 hours ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

I still hold on to the hope that quantum leaps are an inevitable byproduct of evolutionary privileged thinkers. I predict a  paradigm shift for fossil science, I only hope to live to see it. 

Most change seems to come from revolutionary 'quantum leaps' rather than slow evolutionary tinkering with our knowledge and technology. I find our species to be depressingly reactive rather than proactive on all of the big hard issues. Let's hope you optimists pull through or well all be in deep doo doo. I don't see a need for deep paradigm shifts in how we approach fossil science but I am impressed with both technological breakthroughs that allow us to glean more information from fossils. I am also optimistic that volunteers and avocational fossil hunters are finding it easier to work with the professionals to advance the science. I, for one, am very grateful for the opportunities to work closely with the FLMNH here in Gainesville.

 

9 hours ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

To be correct Ken, I have not mentioned anything regarding to what I believe this rock could be (this forum has taught me well) I certainly did not believe it to be an artifact and I did upload 5 additional photos but they are not showing so I will try once more.

Your topic tag of 'prehistoric' made me wonder if you were leaning toward this object being fashioned by some craft-person in our deep past. You may have better luck replying to this topic and including views from the other angles to that reply. There is a limit to the amount of attachments that can be included with each reply but no limit on the number of replies. 

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Harry Pristis]

15 hours ago, digit said:

Till we figure out an efficient method out of this gravity well we call planet Earth I believe we will only tinker with modest near-Earth projects . . . 

We already are able to escape earth's gravity well (inefficiently, I grant). 

  The problem with traveling to distant planets and other star systems is the flight duration at the current snail's pace.  We need to develop a propulsion system that will produce speeds measured against the speed of light (C) . . . 0.1C or 0.2C, for example.  Or, we need to find a way to manipulate space-time to get to our destination . . . the popular idea of "worm holes," for example.  Without overcoming the problem of distances, human space travelers would have to spend tens or hundreds of years in transit.

[FranzBernhard]

News on warp drives:

Recent papers about warp drives (link to youtube video)

Franz Bernhard

[ThePhysicist]

54 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

We already are able to escape earth's gravity well (inefficiently, I grant). 

  The problem with traveling to distant planets and other star systems is the flight duration at the current snail's pace.  We need to develop a propulsion system that will produce speeds measured against the speed of light (C) . . . 0.1C or 0.2C, for example.  Or, we need to find a way to manipulate space-time to get to our destination . . . the popular idea of "worm holes," for example.  Without overcoming the problem of distances, human space travelers would have to spend tens or hundreds of years in transit.

Yup. Classically speaking, the gravitational potential "well" is what we're talking about. And yes, we can achieve energies to "escape" (meaning we can achieve energies large enough to travel in an unbound trajectory), but we will never truly be rid of the Earth's gravitational potential - since it would require traveling an infinite distance away, as it decays roughly as inversely the distance at large distances.

There are indeed solutions to Einstein's field equations that are reflected in popular science, like warp drives and traversable wormholes (cf. the Alcubierre metric or the Ellis "wormhole" metric), but both require either matter that is not known to exist (matter with a negative energy density), or knowledge of how to manipulate vacuum energy/dark energy - whatever's driving the current accelerated expansion of the Universe.

[FranzBernhard]

11 minutes ago, ThePhysicist said:

since it would require traveling an infinite distance away

On that way, we will encounter other gravitational wells .

Franz Bernhard

[ChrisSarahRox]

Multiple angles of the above topic. 

[ChrisSarahRox]

I have more "thunder eggs" than any other rock ( and this includes ones already there) and not one comes even close to the rock pictured. This will be my third attempt to upload this group of photos as the first two attempts my photos had been deleted before being posted. 

[Mahnmut]

Hi,

I wonder if this could be a steinkern with little remnants of shell of either a gastropod, bivalve or brachiopod?

The surface looks somewhat shell-like to me.

 

Regarding hope, although I am convinced that we are not alone for reasons of probability, I much doubt the distances will be ever bridged in any meaningful way. Earth is what we have.

 

And if you say you want to believe that 99% of the fossil record are not lost, do you hope the gaps can be closed by finding the missing fossils, or do you hope the gaps are not artifacts of preservation? More so than punctuated equilibrium predicts?

Best Regards,

J

[ChrisSarahRox]

5 hours ago, Mahnmut said:

Hi,

I wonder if this could be a steinkern with little remnants of shell of either a gastropod, bivalve or brachiopod?

The surface looks somewhat shell-like to me.

 

Regarding hope, although I am convinced that we are not alone for reasons of probability, I much doubt the distances will be ever bridged in any meaningful way. Earth is what we have.

 

And if you say you want to believe that 99% of the fossil record are not lost, do you hope the gaps can be closed by finding the missing fossils, or do you hope the gaps are not artifacts of preservation? More so than punctuated equilibrium predicts?

Best Regards,

J

Hello J, the surface texture is exactly what I had hoped would be mentioned without being mentioned. My photos are of the highest resolution possible so I urge anyone whom it may concern to dissect them. Medical professionals cannot give a diagnosis over a phone call just as scholars in this field cannot give proper identification to most queries behind blurry photos and uneducated guesses from people such as myself. From my experience here I have seen an unfortunate trend in the fossil I.D. section and that is those that only hope to personally gain from what they believe they found,  moreover when they are told that they will not is when action has to be taken to not disrupt the dignity of this forum. Behavior like this only happens in the fossil id section would be my safe assumption. 

 

Although it would and does leave a lingering stigma to those who have experienced the ignorance of others. So I speak for myself and for people like me with one and only one reason for their persistence, it's the need to know and nothing more. 

 

Such distances in space can be bridged if we had something to offer other than a species that is genetically predisposed to self-destruction, primitive, unpredictable, hostile infants of the cosmos with the ability to split the atom. 

It's only been since 1995 when we learned something seemingly so simple as the "wobble" of a star was able to tell us that it hosted a planet to where we are now. 

I do not hope the gaps In fossil science can be closed, I only hope to help prove that there are no gaps. 

[Fossildude19]

Looks like chalcedony or agate to me.
Still not seeing anything fossil-like here.

[Fin Lover]

1 hour ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

Medical professionals cannot give a diagnosis over a phone call just as scholars in this field cannot give proper identification to most queries behind blurry photos and uneducated guesses from people such as myself. 

Pretty sure Telemedicine is still around.

1 hour ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

From my experience here I have seen an unfortunate trend in the fossil I.D. section and that is those that only hope to personally gain from what they believe they found,  moreover when they are told that they will not is when action has to be taken to not disrupt the dignity of this forum.

I'm curious as to what are you implying here - what reason you feel the professions and experts would have to intentionally lie and then lock a post?  How would that benefit the forum, science, or anyone individually?

Edited December 5, 2022 by Fin Lover

[Randyw]

7 minutes ago, Fin Lover said:

what reason you feel the professions and experts would have to intentionally lie and then lock a post?  How would that benefit the forum, science, or anyone individually?

I believe she is refering to those who bring pictures of supposedly one of a kind fossils like “snake heads” or dragons.. ( yes we had one of those once) and she is not refering to the forum members attempting to answer the questions.

1 hour ago, ChrisSarahRox said:

do not hope the gaps In fossil science can be closed, I only hope to help prove that there are no gaps. 

Actually i believe that there are huge gaps in the fossil records that i would love to see filled. Every day there are new discoveries being made. I for one am waiting for them to find a whole dinosaur encased in amber. (Won’t happen but I’d love to see it.) although they have found parts! But there are still things that are possible and things that are not possible. And thats where the problems come in.

both sides need to come into it with an open mind. Thats one thing i really like about the members here. They see hundreds of supposed one of a kind fossils but they still will take the time to check out the pictures and posts and make an informed well thought out post and normally try to inform what their reasons are. Most of the time only to be met with complaints, accusations, and derision. But we keep doing it for the rare open minded people who hear what we say, take it to heart, and learn. Some of themhave gone on to be well respected members of this forum with successful fossil hunts under their belts. Others argue and are informed to take it to a museum and get back to us with the results. They never do becuase presumably they are told the same things there. We love the ones that reply “oh o.k. So what should it look like” or “how can I learn more?” Or even “why” and then pay attention to what they are told.

[Brandy Cole]

@Fin Lover. I may be speaking out of turn, and it's very possible I've misunderstood OP's post, but I thought OP was saying that some people seeking IDs come here hoping to find out they have a financially valuable find, then get upset and contentious when told they don't.  Then mods eventually have to step in and lock the thread.  Whereas OP is asking questions out of hope for more knowledge rather than financial gain, so OP is concerned about the potential stigma of being lumped in with some of the more unruly ID seekers.

 

That's how I took it anyway.

[Randyw]

1 minute ago, Brandy Cole said:

@Fin Lover. I may be speaking out of turn, and it's very possible I've misunderstood OP's post, but I thought OP was saying that some people seeking IDs come here hoping to find out they have a financially valuable find, then get upset and contentious when told they don't.  Then mods eventually have to step in and lock the thread.  Whereas OP is asking questions out of hope for more knowledge rather than financial gain, so OP is concerned about the potential stigma of being lumped in with some of the more unruly ID seekers.

 

That's how I took it anyway.

Well said. You said what i tried to say with less words and better