RCFossils Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 I have 2 white river mammal skulls that I am hoping some can assist with identifying. They both measure a little over 4 centimeters. one has been prepped out of the matrix preserving a relatively complete dentary (including the bases of both canines). The second is still covered in matrix. I am fairly certain that the one that is prepped is likely a rabbit. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Hello RCFossils, at first look I thought those molars look more robust and less hypsodont compared to what I would expect of a (modern) rabbit, but looking at images of Palaeolagus, I think it fits. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fevo.2021.634757/full Best Regards, J 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimravis Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 Rob- mine look similar, but with dentition, things might be different. The left on is Ischyromys and the right is Palaeolagus. @jpc and @ParkerPaleo - what do you think about Rob’s pieces? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 12, 2022 Share Posted December 12, 2022 (edited) Not a rabbit. Rabbits have interesting fenestration on the side of the face between the eye and the front teeth... very distinctive. Also it is too thick in the palate to top-of-schnozz dimension (ventral/dorsal). I think this is the large squirrely rodent Ischyromys. Paleolagus would also have a second set of incisors (not canines) behind the broken ones ton this guy...tucked right in there behind them. This guy does not have these incisors. The second one looks more rabbit-like. I think I can see a second incisor behind one of those incisors. can we see the palatal view of the front teeth close up? edit: looks like nimravis and I were both typing at the same time. Edited December 12, 2022 by jpc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted December 12, 2022 Author Share Posted December 12, 2022 19 minutes ago, jpc said: Not a rabbit. Rabbits have interesting fenestration on the side of the face between the eye and the front teeth... very distinctive. Also it is too thick in the palate to top-of-schnozz dimension (ventral/dorsal). I think this is the large squirrely rodent Ischyromys. Paleolagus would also have a second set of incisors (not canines) behind the broken ones ton this guy...tucked right in there behind them. This guy does not have these incisors. The second one looks more rabbit-like. I think I can see a second incisor behind one of those incisors. can we see the palatal view of the front teeth close up? edit: looks like nimravis and I were both typing at the same time. That is some great information. Here are a few additional pictures of the fronts of the skulls. I do see what appear to be a second set of canines on the unprepped specimen. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Are those grooved incisors or two sets? Your photos are great, by the way, but can I see one looking directly up at the teeth from the view of the tongue? I am getting a rabbit vibe form this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 A few more pictures. I do believe that there are 2 separate incisor teeth on both sides of the unprepped skull. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 I am home now and can compare to my own Paleolaguses in my own time. Here are two pix of one specimen. The first shows the front view. Note the way the two front incisors look like there are four of them... they are grooved. This is what we are seeing in yours, and I think that is enough to call it a paleolagus. In the second picture, I put an arrow to show the actual second incisor, really tucked in behind the main incisors. There ya go... yours is a Pelolagus. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFossils Posted December 13, 2022 Author Share Posted December 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, jpc said: I am home now and can compare to my own Paleolaguses in my own time. Here are two pix of one specimen. The first shows the front view. Note the way the two front incisors look like there are four of them... they are grooved. This is what we are seeing in yours, and I think that is enough to call it a paleolagus. In the second picture, I put an arrow to show the actual second incisor, really tucked in behind the main incisors. There ya go... yours is a Pelolagus. Thanks for taking the time to answer this mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 Nice thread. This is very helpful and interesting. 1 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 RCFossils.... I took your second to last photo and highlighted the front (main) incisors in red. The second one is seen poking out and is circled in some sort of green color. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkerPaleo Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 19 hours ago, Nimravis said: Rob- mine look similar, but with dentition, things might be different. The left on is Ischyromys and the right is Palaeolagus. @jpc and @ParkerPaleo - what do you think about Rob’s pieces? You both nailed it. Ischyromys and Paleolagus. Missed the fun by being ill yesterday I really need to finish an ID book/website for the White River. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 13, 2022 Share Posted December 13, 2022 1 hour ago, ParkerPaleo said: I really need to finish an ID book/website for the White River. yeah, me too. I am retiring in well, less than ten years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randyw Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 6 hours ago, ParkerPaleo said: really need to finish an ID book/website for the White River. Oooooooo! I would use the heck out of one of those! (8 years until I can try to retire) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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