Mosasaur - help needed what is real or fake

[ray67]

HI everybody,

 

so i´m quite new in the fossil collecting business and started watching some auctions on an auction site, recently.

My one and only fossil finding event was some years ago in the south of morocco with my wife in a jeep, where we could find trilobites easy on the side of the desert tracks.

one of the locals also showed us the "production" of the 100´s of trilobites they sold as souvenirs, mostly made by casts...

 

Well, what i´m looking for now is a selection of maybe a (or 2) handful nice objects of good size and quality, and one of this pieces should be a mosasaur skull or jaw.

There are a lot offered these days at the mentioned auction site, but i´m really afraid that some of them are fake. so my question to you experts is - how can i distinguish between a real mosa and a pile of resin? and is the expert-estimation on cata something you can trust - at least that´s it a real dino and no fake one?

 

i did a little research on this topic and will post 3 pics of proven real mosa skull/lower jaws from past auctions (the 3 with the blue background) at another site and after that 4 pics of 2 mosasaurs that are on the auction this week and, well, could be interesting for us if they are no fakes. 

 

thank you so far for your feedback and best regards,

ray

 

Auctions:

 

# 1

 

 

 

 

 

 

# 2

 

 

 

 

 

REAL MOSASAUR JAWS

 

 

 

 

 

[FB003]

If you aren't an expert best thing to do is post pictures of them here before you bid. Many experts here that can help.

[Randyw]

I’d wait for the experts but i have serious concerns with both the auctions you posted….

the filler used around the teeth, the mismatched bones, the odd filled in sections, 

a lot of them seems faked to me…

[Randyw]

Compare the pieces from the auctions you posted to the real ones you posted. Compare the flow of the bones and the tooth attatchments….

[Troodon]

Mosasaur material from Morocco is highly composited and faked.  I agree with Randyw that the two top ones exhibit both those characteristics.  Just look at all the fill around the composited bone and teeth.  Its  like a bone puzzle trying to look like a skull.

 

Compare the bones in this one from Morocco from an auction house

[SomethingIsFishy]

They look fake to me but I'm not an expert on this.

 

[ray67]

hi

thank you so much for your input, i really appreciate that!

i think i can see what you mean, the dental attachments are only plaster or resin and in total there are too many filled up areas between the bone pieces.

maybe only the teeth are real and most of the bone was rebuilt?

it´s interesting that even such a "supervised" auction platform seems to fail in detecting fake stuff in this area. i mean they are selling a complete dimetrodon this week for the price of a small family home, and nobody cares...

 

ok guys, thank you so far for your assistance, i see that our research will take a little longer to find the best pieces, but we are not in a hurry.

and i will gladly take you up on your offer if i find something else and not so fishy to post it here again for your review 

have a great day and best regards,

ray

[Troodon]

Please dont assume auction houses know what they are selling.

 

This took a paleontologist to point out issues with was being offered.

 

[ray67]

ok, so here are some more questionable items - fake or real?

i´ll put each in a separate post.

 

1. Phareodus testis, Green river, Wyoming

[ray67]

2. Keichousaurus hui, Asia...

[ray67]

3. Diplomystus dentatus, Wyoming

[ray67]

4. Ophioderma egertoni, UK

 

thank you so much for your feedback!

[Randyw]

The two fish look real. I'm at work on my phone so I can't blow up the pictures enough to comment on wether there's any paint touch ups. Let's tag in @Ptychodus04 for his professional opinion.

[SomethingIsFishy]

2 hours ago, Randyw said:

The two fish look real. I'm at work on my phone so I can't blow up the pictures enough to comment on wether there's any paint touch ups. Let's tag in @Ptychodus04 for his professional opinion.

I agree. Both of the grf fossils look real.

[rocket]

Fishes are real and the starfish, too. These starfishes come up in South-West-England at one point, they are hard to find (more common than on the market, but really really hard to get in the field, tried in several times without success...).

 

[Randyw]

Ok. Now that I’m home and can blow it up the phareo looks like it’s missing a lot of bones and may have some coloring touch ups. The diplo looks to be much more complete and better prepped.

[ray67]

wow, thanks a lot for your expert estimation!

will take a serious look at these auctions for sure.

 

best regards,

ray

[Ptychodus04]

The fish are definitely real. The Phareodus doesn’t have the best preservation or preparation but this is not atypical for Sandwich Bed fish. They are tough to prep. The Diplo needs some clean up of the matrix but otherwise looks good. 
 

The keichosaur looks mostly legit. I’m suspect of the head and neck. There’s a reason that there’s no close up photos of that part.

 

 

[ray67]

hi Kris,

 

thank you so much for your expert opinion! i found 2 more pics of keicho from the neck area. i couldn´t even imagine that there is at least one not-faked keicho in the world 

 

have a great day all!

ray

[ray67]

what do you think about the head and neck part, @Ptychodus04 ?

thank you,

ray

[Ptychodus04]

14 hours ago, ray67 said:

what do you think about the head and neck part, @Ptychodus04 ?

thank you,

ray

They look legit. Typically, the fakes aren’t as 3D and there appears to be bone texture. 

[rocket]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:30 PM, Troodon said:

Mosasaur material from Morocco is highly composited and faked.  

 

 

yep, that´s right. A really good one without or with less restauration is rare on the market. Most of them are done. We met a professional preparator (or Artist...) in Morocco some years ago and had the chance to watch the way how they will be fabricated. Wow..., some of them are built of three or four individuals but you need a minute so recognize. Best is to buy an unprepped one and do the work yourself. To get a really good one is nearly impossible on shows and auction-houses (except of the few with really high-class-fossils and real experts). All skulls and skeletons we have seen on the fairs and the last auctions looked nice, but only looked nice... But, price goes down, complete skeletons are at [price redacted] sometimes..., low price for nice display-fossils (5 Meters...)

[Gareth_]

I agree with the others.... both fish are real and they're really nice specimens! 

[ray67]

1 hour ago, Ptychodus04 said:

They look legit. Typically, the fakes aren’t as 3D and there appears to be bone texture. 

perfect, thanks! might give it a try then.

have a great day + best regardss,

ray

[ray67]

1 hour ago, rocket said:

 

yep, that´s right. A really good one without or with less restauration is rare on the market. Most of them are done. We met a professional preparator (or Artist...) in Morocco some years ago and had the chance to watch the way how they will be fabricated. Wow..., some of them are built of three or four individuals but you need a minute so recognize. Best is to buy an unprepped one and do the work yourself. To get a really good one is nearly impossible on shows and auction-houses (except of the few with really high-class-fossils and real experts). All skulls and skeletons we have seen on the fairs and the last auctions looked nice, but only looked nice... But, price goes down, complete skeletons are at 7000 USD sometimes..., low price for nice display-fossils (5 Meters...)

yes it looks like there is a big price range between the good and the ugly... at least i am warned now and will be careful - and patient with mosa skulls 

btw the real skull on the last pic in my first post here (blue background) was sold for [price redacted], 10 years ago.

 

thank you all so much, you guys really preserved me from spending money on resin bones!

have a great weekend + new year!

hear you soon

ray