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Another first unknown find.


beachcomber

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Help with id once again. Found another oddity (for me anyway). Appears to show some symmetry although somewhat worn. Thanks in advance.

A5D184F0-938F-4DA5-8337-8D4619FCEFDC.jpeg

94A30203-AAC6-48C9-BA23-5FF00D10EC9B.jpeg

A4232D14-4AC9-4BDD-B211-453FE7F72DAA.jpeg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rockwood said:

It does have the look of bone, but would a tilly bone have the slightly off texture as well ?

All Tilly bones I have seen appear to be massive; that is, uniform material throughout.

 

In fact, normal fish bones are probably uniform in construction -- no cancellous bone.  Is that overstating things?

 

fish_Tillybone.JPG.9c57ee4aca2da43293a031a1bea7c8df.JPGfish_Tilly_xsection.thumb.JPG.abfae0c4dc2e26218086c616fd5c675e.JPGfish_Tilly_xsection_micro.thumb.JPG.781d6448914947e4f8c62a1adf7b1608.JPG

  • I found this Informative 2

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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23 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said:

massive

But still having foramen. Perhaps an indication favoring this ID over the dense bone in a cetacean ear ? 

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Yes, fish bones are dense, without the foramina we are accustomed to seeing in mammal bones because the fish bones have no cancellous bone. 

 

I think the mystery object is neither mammal bulla nor fish bone.  That said, I admit this opinion is based on intuition and invites better-informed correction.  :tiphat:

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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3 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

Yes, fish bones are dense, without the foramina we are accustomed to seeing in mammal bones because the fish bones have no cancellous bone. 

Well, :headscratch:Maybe ? I suspect it's more a matter of degree.

IMG_5641 (2).JPG

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3 hours ago, Rockwood said:

Well, :headscratch:Maybe ? I suspect it's more a matter of degree.

 

No, I don't think so.  Trabecular (cancellous) bone is highly vascularized.  Fish bones are not highly vascularized.  That doesn't mean that fish bones can't be porous, but the porosity seems to be made up of compacted filaments or trabeculae without the mammalian medullary cavity.  That is, there are no walls to contain any marrow.  I just can't find on-line any reference to "cancellous bone in fish."  Can you?

  Here's a fish vertebra which show apparent porous bone and plenty of trabeculae ("struts"), but nothing I can confidently say is a foramen.

  I wish someone better versed in fish biology would step up here.

  Apologies to beachcomber for highjacking this thread.

 

1689367948_fishatlasB.JPG.b631b55b700ab0aeafed2a470c543605.JPG1717987228_fishatlasA.JPG.90cabe1add64ac5a1edf7be1f9bbb5ed.JPG

 

 

  • I found this Informative 1

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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No need to apologize. I am finding this a valuable learning experience. I will try to get a few better pics if that would help.

Thank you,

Steve

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3 hours ago, Harry Pristis said:

I just can't find on-line any reference to "cancellous bone in fish."  Can you?

I posted a photo of what I found in he Chesapeake Bay. I see what I see, and that includes two holes clearly through the vertebra, and a lot of small void spaces.  I really don't care what terminology anyone wants to use.

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  The object only grows stranger, in my estimation.  I still don't think it's a mammal bulla or a Tilly bone, but I don't know what else to guess.

  It doesn't have the appearance of an abscess or other pathology in my experience.

  I thought for a second that the object resembled a carnivore scapholunar, but I don't think the contours are right.  Sorry.  Use the images to eliminate that possibility.

  If you do get a reliable identification, please let us know. 

 

amphicyonid_scapholunar_B.JPG.82add36a603a3609a3026cd7d36d6eb9.JPGamphicyonid_scapholunar_C.JPG.1f39820c1d362bb43fbe9208b1bf5312.JPGamphicyonid_scapholunar_D.JPG.280ad3f75f508ffcb46df1d1f46e9994.JPGamphicyonid_scapholunar_E.JPG.9d3a76e19d5a5e0be974c2db4e6980aa.JPG

 

amphicyon_canisscapholunarDistal.JPG.057edfc8341564127f073c952b6e3bc0.JPGamphicyon_canisscapholunarProximal.JPG.c997b8bfb1860665a395049f6f073a05.JPG

  • I found this Informative 3

http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page

 

What seest thou else

In the dark backward and abysm of time?

---Shakespeare, The Tempest

 

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