LordWampa Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Hello, this is a "mosasaur jaw" from Morocco, I bought it knowing that the jaw was super suspicious and just considered it as a display for the teeth. But on further examination, as you can see on the close up photo, the texture of the jaw bone seems too good for a cast (at least in my opinion and comparing it to other moroccan jaws I saw). Can it be a reconstructed real jaw? It's a crocodile jaw or similar? Or a really good cast? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FranzBernhard Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Welcome to TFF from Austria! 30 minutes ago, LordWampa said: What do you think? I think, that the "bone" is a piece of complete artwork. No bone material, not a cast, but individually made. Someone put quite some effort into it to make it look like bone. But its not perfect. Just my thinking, I could be completely wrong, of course. Franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phos_01 Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 3 hours ago, FranzBernhard said: No bone material Hmm I think so to. I think its a plaster work, or perhaps with a piece of bone from another animal with assorted teeth placed inside. Teeth are also not matching Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Definitely hand made by man. Looks like carved bone from at least 2 pieces and all the teeth have been added. That back tooth has been added too deep into the 'jaw' also. RB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWampa Posted December 30, 2022 Author Share Posted December 30, 2022 20 minutes ago, RJB said: Definitely hand made by man. Looks like carved bone from at least 2 pieces and all the teeth have been added. That back tooth has been added too deep into the 'jaw' also. RB To my feeling the outer face has a really convincing feeling and texture, so maybe the outer face is part of some real bone modified to look as a jaw and the inner face is plaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From the Shale Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 I think you get fake jaws alot with mosasaur teeth. I've seen quite a few made strictly of sand pasted together. This looks different, but I'd say a replica jaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 30, 2022 Share Posted December 30, 2022 Based on these pictures, I have to disagree. The texture looks pretty good in the close up photo. If it is carved, it is very well done. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatFossilBoy Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 It is a composite: Real jaw and real teeth but the teeth belonged to another jaw and have been stuck to that jaw with some paste. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troodon Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 I believe it's real bone but in the end it really does not matter. What you have is a composite jaw with mosasaur teeth in it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Yup, @jpc, @DatFossilBoy and @Troodon are completely right in this being a real jaw but with separate teeth fitted on. The bone texture is exactly what you'd expect from a mosasaur jaw, including the foramina and Meckelian canal. You can also just make out the honeycomb structure of the cancellous bone inside the jaw if you look at the cross-section. So real jaw, real teeth, but ultimately a composite... 1 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWampa Posted December 31, 2022 Author Share Posted December 31, 2022 24 minutes ago, pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon said: Yup, @jpc, @DatFossilBoy and @Troodon are completely right in this being a real jaw but with separate teeth fitted on. The bone texture is exactly what you'd expect from a mosasaur jaw, including the foramina and Meckelian canal. You can also just make out the honeycomb structure of the cancellous bone inside the jaw if you look at the cross-section. So real jaw, real teeth, but ultimately a composite... Yes, this is what i was hoping for. I bought it knowing it was a composite, the real deal is too expensive for my wallet. I just wasn't 100% sure if the jaw was real. For me a composite is was i was looking for, I am happy with it! Thanks guys for the inputs!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 Common you guys! This is so obviously carved its not even funny. There are scratch marks showing it was carved. The discoloration also proves that it was carved. Take a closer look guys. Just look at these obvious carving marks. Also look at how 'new' most of the bone area is because of the carving. Even if it is a real piece of jaw, it has been carved to make it look better. And for whatever all that is worth,,,,, thar ya go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 scratch marks= tool marks? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) I agree. The jaw and the teeth both appear to be real. But it has been "frankensteined" from diferent specimens. If the jaw is fake, then it was not worth the effort the person put into it. Just look at all the detail. Have you ever seen a fake jaw with that much detail? I don't think you can get that good of a replica with plaster or with moulding very easily. Yeah, definitely could be tool marks, especially if the person was sloppy and did not care a whole lot if there were some marks. And if they were just trying to scam people, then they would not spend much time on it, and so they would be sloppy. Or maybe they were trying to carve it a little bit to make it look like the teeth fit the jaw. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Edited December 31, 2022 by fossilhunter21 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pachy-pleuro-whatnot-odon Posted December 31, 2022 Share Posted December 31, 2022 6 hours ago, RJB said: Common you guys! This is so obviously carved its not even funny. There are scratch marks showing it was carved. The discoloration also proves that it was carved. Take a closer look guys. Just look at these obvious carving marks. Also look at how 'new' most of the bone area is because of the carving. Even if it is a real piece of jaw, it has been carved to make it look better. And for whatever all that is worth,,,,, thar ya go. 1 hour ago, jpc said: scratch marks= tool marks? Yeah, I'd say the scratch marks are tool marks (which, strictly taken, still doesn't tell you a whole lot, of course, as a completely fake jaw might also contain tool marks from a sloppy job creating the forgery ) from someone that couldn't be bothered to invest the proper time and attention preparing a piece that would be considered rather worthless anyway. I think I see some smoother spots too, which could represent gap fills. However, if you look at the below jaw specimen, then I hope the similarities between this specimen and the one below would illustrate the point that OP's is a real jaw: 2 1 1 'There's nothing like millions of years of really frustrating trial and error to give a species moral fibre and, in some cases, backbone' -- Terry Pratchett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocket Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 my opinion: good jaw bone, good tooth, but, two or more animals. Well done work, pretty done, if you like to use it only for display its fine, if you like to get a good one for your collection, its.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordWampa Posted January 1, 2023 Author Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, rocket said: my opinion: good jaw bone, good tooth, but, two or more animals. Well done work, pretty done, if you like to use it only for display its fine, if you like to get a good one for your collection, its.... Yes, it's totally for display, I know they everybody has it's own opinion, but I prefer this than a jaw without teeth to have for display. And I won't say what I paid because of forum rules, but it's a fair price for a display piece like this. It's not near the amount you would expect for the "real deal". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Posted January 1, 2023 Share Posted January 1, 2023 The piece is a composite of several mosasaurs. The jaw-bone is a real mosasaur jaw. You can see the Meckelian canal in medial view and neurovascular foramina on the outer cortical surface. The curved upper margin and general size of the piece compares well with Thalassotitan atrox (formerly Prognathodon anceps). Teeth look to be a mix of Thalassotitan atrox, Hainosaurus boubker, and possibly Eremiasaurus heterodontus (hard to get a good look at the last tooth. It is somewhat straight like mid-marginal Erem teeth). Meckelian canal and curved upper margin of the dentary Foramina for cranial nerve exits Some guesses at tooth ID. I'm not super confident about the last two. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordTrilobite Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Absolutely not a carving. Very clearly a real piece of mosasaur jaw with various teeth that do not belong to the jaw. The teeth are all composited in. The jaw piece itself is a lower right jaw. The front part of the dentary. It seems probable that the fourth tooth root does belong to the jaw itself. But the tooth crown on it does not. This is not what carvings look like. No carving has that amount of detail on the cortical bone. 1 1 Olof Moleman AKA Lord Trilobite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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