Baby Triceratops Frill?

[Dino Dad 81]

Hi,

We found this roughly 1" x 1" x 0.2" piece in a box of rock and dirt I ordered from the Lance formation in Weston co, Wyoming. Could this be a frill section from a baby Triceratops? Such a beautiful little thing, whatever it is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[val horn]

Flat bones make me think turtle, also not sure what frill a baby triceratops would have had.

[Troodon]

Agree in turtle camp

[Troodon]

Here is a replica Triceratops baby skull by BHI

 

 

 

Goodwin et al. 2006 

 

[Dino Dad 81]

Just want to make sure it was clear that I showed both sides of my specimen in the pics. Don't turtle shells look different on each size? This specimen looks identically vein-textured on both sides. (Based on your turtle leanings above, I'm assuming there are turtle shell piece that look the same on both sides and I just haven't see an example.)

 

Also, I said "baby triceratops" but perhaps "small juvenile" or some other growth stage is more fitting--and I'm not seeing where my specimen looks dissimilar to the various young-stage trike frills in the pics below the turtles.

 

What I'd expect from a turtle:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Whereas, assuming the frill sections circled below look similarly textured on both side, trike seems more like the piece I posted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dino Dad 81]

Also, what do turtle shells look like in the middle/cross-section? These look similar:

 

 

[Dino Dad 81]

Sorry for the 3 separate posts, but I figured I add in to this thread a few other specimens we pulled from the same Lance material to see if they help demonstrate what I'm missing about the originally posted specimen. These are more what I expected to be in the turtle or croc scute domain.

 

 

 

[Troodon]

You have a couple of opinions on this FRAGMENT go with the one you are most comfortable it, yours or others.   I don't plan to spend anymore time on it. Just ask yourself where are there any flat surfaces on that skull.

[Dino Dad 81]

@Troodon, the crux is whether turtle is still a possibility if both sides look identical. Why wouldn't you just give a yes/no on that?

 

Not to mention that this specimen is tiny and not completely flat--so, as I pointed out, it seems like it could fit the sections I circled above plausibly. I have no expertise in this type of material so I'm only trying to help get to the answer of my own question. I have no problem with folks saying they're not interested in helping, but, if I'm getting full-on diagnoses in response, I don't understand why you're not just as interested in confirming the points I raised as I am (e.g., the similar texture on both sides, which I always thought was a cornerstone of frill identification).

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Dino Dad 81

[val horn]

Plenty of turtle is identical on both side.  My understanding is that  only leather back turtle fossils show strong patterning.  I am  no expert, but i expect turtle to be mostly flat  and have large open trabeculation.  I also look for suture lines , and think maybe there is one an the bottom near the edge of an early photos.  As stated i am really no expert but i expect frill to be woven bone and i dont expect to see trabeculation in it

[jpc]

I will just say that I do not know what to call this piece.  

[Dino Dad 81]

@val horn, this is the tiny piece next to an adult piece--there is trabeculation:

Edited December 31, 2022 by Dino Dad 81

[val horn]

My opinion is that i think it is turtle  that being said my opinion isn’t worth much.  You are in new york  there are so many high quality museums and universities take your fossil and have it looked at in person by a vertebrate paleontologist.