Shark tooth fossil, East Coast NC, Carcharocles?

[Beliza]

While out on one of the small "islands" off the coast of Wrightsville Beach, Wilmington, North Carolina- yesterday morning I found this tooth. I have quite a few teeth and various fossils but something about this one feels different. I'm sure everyone says that but I have gone through various shark i.d. questionnaires and can't get a specific conclusion. I've had suggestions from an ancient "cow shark" type species (I think bc I answered "yes" to present cusplet) but there is clearly one and it doesn't appear another broke off- which makes me think age is a factor (as in this could've belonged to a juvenile as opposed to an adult). The back is not completely flat but no serious pronounced shapes, the root is large and in tact with no visible foramen (in human biology a foramen is basically a hole so I'm making the same assumption or odontological guess) and there is not a nutrient line, crown and neck present, serrations continue on both sides of the tooth (I am including two copies of the same photo to show the original with a shadow; but if magnified the serrations are more clear and then a clearer shot that unfortunately didn't 'cut' the black shadow from the serrations. A genus I keep finding is Carcharhinus and hopefully someone has some ideas.

Cheers!

Becky 

 

 

[Fin Lover]

Looks like Otodus angustidens to me.  I would guess that the other cusp broke off at some point.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Fin Lover

[Beliza]

Here are some crude measurements- I can't find a cloth tape measure and had to get creative.

[Beliza]

Thank you for replying!!! I did a reverse image search and came up with Otodus in a couple of shots but there doesn't appear to have been another cusplet (plus the cusplet is larger in comparison to the data I read) then the actual teeth from those sharks all appear much longer than they are wide; whereas this has almost square like proportions for being a 2" specimen....then the roots are not nearly as extended nor angled as they are on this tooth- perhaps I need to see the "right image"...but I do understand that these are old, different minerals erode differently and weathering can make a fracture appear smooth...but...

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beliza

[Meganeura]

34 minutes ago, Beliza said:

Thank you for replying!!! I did a reverse image search and came up with Otodus in a couple of shots but there doesn't appear to have been another cusplet (plus the cusplet is larger in comparison to the data I read) then the actual teeth from those sharks all appear much longer than they are wide; whereas this has almost square like proportions for being a 2" specimen....then the roots are not nearly as extended nor angled as they are on this tooth- perhaps I need to see the "right image"...but I do understand that these are old, different minerals erode differently and weathering can make a fracture appear smooth...but...

It's an Angy as @Fin Lover said. Posterior teeth are more "square" in their proportions, becoming rectangular in the opposite way where they end up wider than they are long the further back in the mouth you go. Roots also change shape depending on mouth position. The cusps also, once again, vary in the mouth, and due to any number of things (tooth position, damage to the jaw, feeding damage, etc.) the shark may have lost a cusplet on this tooth. It could also have worn away after fossilization.

For comparions - if you go to my profile, my cover photo is varying Otodus Megalodon (indirect Descendant of Angustidens - Chubutensis followed Angustides, and Megs after Chubs) teeth I've found in Florida. You can see they vary greatly in tooth shape, root shape, and size. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Meganeura

[Beliza]

Two people agreeing have to know more than me What is ironic is the Angustidens was the second "answer" after going through a series of detailed identification questions where if the answer is "a" go to question 4 and if "b" got to question 13 etc until landing at a possible solution. Someone from that site kept sending me the Otodus Chubtensis and it didn't "seem right" and looking back at my notes I wrote ask fossil guide about Otendus Carcharocles Angustidens but the Carcharocles is what my phone didn't "edit" out of the title. Is this nomenclature a possibility? I believe I saw it on a site for Aurora, NC very well known for it's fossils and not far from me.

Thank you both for taking time to reply and explain the differences. I guess it isn't a rare find after all?

  I still really like her though.

   Cheers!

     Becky

[Meganeura]

7 hours ago, Beliza said:

Two people agreeing have to know more than me What is ironic is the Angustidens was the second "answer" after going through a series of detailed identification questions where if the answer is "a" go to question 4 and if "b" got to question 13 etc until landing at a possible solution. Someone from that site kept sending me the Otodus Chubtensis and it didn't "seem right" and looking back at my notes I wrote ask fossil guide about Otendus Carcharocles Angustidens but the Carcharocles is what my phone didn't "edit" out of the title. Is this nomenclature a possibility? I believe I saw it on a site for Aurora, NC very well known for it's fossils and not far from me.

Thank you both for taking time to reply and explain the differences. I guess it isn't a rare find after all?

  I still really like her though.

   Cheers!

     Becky Elizabeth

So Carcharocles is a currently outdated Genus name - but for all intents and purposes, Otodus and Carcharocles are interchangeable, they refer to the same genus of sharks when talking about Auriculatus and it's descendants (Soklovi, Angustidens, Chubutensis, Megalodon). Your tooth has cusps far too pronounced to be Chubutensis.

As far as rarity goes - Otodus teeth are much rarer than what a lot of us normally call "Smalls" - lemon sharks, tiger sharks, snaggletooth sharks, bull sharks, etc. which are normally much more common. It's still an awesome find, though, so I wouldn't sell yourself short there! I still get very excited every time I find a Meg, and I've been hunting for almost a year now (Which is really not much time at all).

[Darktooth]

Welcome to the forum! I just wanted to say that putting your g-mail address on the forum for the world to see is not a good idea. While there are many great members here that would mean no harm, unfortunately we get

trolls from time to time which may use that address for reasons not intended by you.

 

Dave

Edited January 8, 2023 by Darktooth

[Beliza]

* Update: apparently I can't edit my original post...great. I don't even see where I can delete it- only Report or share it. Argghggh

 

Gotcha- wasn't thinking about notifications going to the inbox etc as I signed up several years ago and step on randomly to check things out. Thanks for the heads up and hopefully I can edit it out of there now.

  Thanks Again!

     Becky 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Beliza
Because I can't fix my original post to remove personal data

[Meganeura]

@digit @JohnJ either of you two able to edit the original post?

[Kane]

I've removed the email (and took the liberty of removing your last name from the post, just in case you wanted to preserve some measure of anonymity  ). 

[Al Dente]

I wouldn’t rule out Otodus auriculatus for this tooth. The Wilmington area has Eocene Castle Hayne Formation.

[Fin Lover]

It looks like your tooth would have been longer originally (tip is broken off), but they can vary greatly in size, shape, and cusp size.  Here are several of my better angustidens, all found in the same general area in South Carolina:

 

 

That being said, @Al Dente knows way more than me and @Meganeura combined, so O. auriculatus is also an option.  We don't have those in my area.  

[Meganeura]

1 minute ago, Fin Lover said:

It looks like your tooth would have been longer originally (tip is broken off), but they can vary greatly in size, shape, and cusp size.  Here are several of my better angustidens, all found in the same general area in South Carolina:

 

 

That being said, @Al Dente knows way more than me and @Meganeura combined, so O. auriculatus is also an option.  We don't have those in my area.  

Yup, I know my central Florida stuff, but @Al Dente is the expert here!

[Fossildude19]

50 minutes ago, Beliza said:

* Update: apparently I can't edit my original post...great. I don't even see where I can delete it- only Report or share it. Argghggh

 

 

There is a 48 hour editing window. After 48 hours, you need to engage a mod or admin to help with any editing required. 

 

EDIT:  The 48 hour limit is for regular members.  New members have a 10 minute restriction. This was put in place due to a spate of new members deleting photos and other content, after getting an answer. This is poor form, and not appreciated by the membership at large who take the time to answer them.

[Beliza]

Understood. I have kept my "account" open for a 2 years I think- if not longer but I don't post much so O guess that is why I am still new. Thank you for the reply. I realize I wrote that every time but I am sincerely grateful for anyone who tales the time to respond or reply to anything I ask or write

. Cheers!

     Becks

[Beliza]

Also I tried clicking on the Thank You and Like emogees for the other posts but it gives me an Error message each time and I don't want to get cut off for trying to do something the system is rejecting.

 

[Darktooth]

1 hour ago, Beliza said:

Also I tried clicking on the Thank You and Like emogees for the other posts but it gives me an Error message each time and I don't want to get cut off for trying to do something the system is rejecting.

 

I think that is just a glitch that sometimes happens. It even happens to me once and awhile, even though I regularly post here.

[webmasterj]

Another vote for angustidens based on the GREAT pictures you took of it.
Some nice colors on the blade of the tooth too.



 

[Beliza]

Thank you very much webmasterj ! I know the measurement pics are weird but I couldn't find a flat tape measure and didn't want to approximate the size by laying it next to a coin etc (even though I've done this with stones and think it is helpful) I felt this group could / would understand an "inch is an inch" whether starting at 1 or 3

. Cheers! Becky Elizabeth

[Beliza]

I am not usually a "fan" of this site but when researching further last week I found this "article" on C. Auriculatis vs C. Angustidens and although not properly cited; if these details are correct it would be helpful. I am NOT promoting anything nor anyone as I found it through a Google search and was kind of surprised to see a write-up of the exact question and not in a journal or something I needed to pay for etc:

https://fossil.fandom.com/wiki/Differentiating_from_C._angustidens_and_C._auriculatus

 

I read the rules and would never try to spread someone else's work or credit but their are no trademarks and it (the specific site page) doesn't sell anything that I can tell.

   Thanks Again to Everyone! Once I have a display I plan on promoting this site again through social media if that is okay.

   Cheers!

     Becks

[Shellseeker]

2 hours ago, Beliza said:

Once I have a display I plan on promoting this site again through social media if that is okay.

Absolutely,  I promote TFF to anyone/everyone I meet who expresses an interest in fossils.

Here is an interesting thread that might explain the "shadow" in your tooth !!! Repeating GREAT photos,  How did you do that ?

 

[sixgill pete]

I would agree with Al Dente on this one. The area around Wrightsville / Wilmington / New Hanover County has exposures of the Eocene Castle Hayne Formation. This would suggest the tooth is C. auriculatus and not C. angustidens. 

The Oligocene exposures where C. angustidens are found are farther north of the Wilmington area.

[Beliza]

On 1/16/2023 at 3:48 PM, Shellseeker said:

Absolutely,  I promote TFF to anyone/everyone I meet who expresses an interest in fossils.

Here is an interesting thread that might explain the "shadow" in your tooth !!! Repeating GREAT photos,  How did you do that ?

 

 

I'd love to see the site!

  Thanks! Becks

[Al Dente]

Forum member Plax sent me a copy of a thesis the other day that has this map which would indicate that there is Oligocene just offshore, so angustidens would be a possibility for this tooth. The paper is THE INFLUENCE OF INLET MODIFICATIONS, GEOLOGIC FRAMEWORK, AND STORMS ON THE RECENT EVOLUTION OF MASONBORO ISLAND, NC
S. David Doughty