ID claw from Niger (Gadoufaoua)

[Mikej_fossils]

Hope someone can ID this claw from Niger. The seller says it was found in Gadoufaoua (Elrhaz Formation). But fossils often mix by the diggers. I don't know if the information is correct. It would be helpfull if someone can tell if its sauropod (as the seller claims) or if the fossil claw is theropod. Thanks for the help!

[Kikokuryu]

As far as provenance goes, the mixing was usually with teeth. The claws were usually individual pieces so, assuming the seller did ask the digger where it was found, I think you can feel a bit safe for the Gadoufaoua claim. With caution of course since you never know.

 

Edit: Actually, looking at the matrix, I'm not as confident on the Gadoufaoua. I see the reddish matrix often on Jurassic Irhazer while a lot of my Suchomimus teeth have a sand-like matrix stuck to the bottom.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Kikokuryu

[Mikej_fossils]

@Kikokuryu Thank you for the reply. This claw came from a lot of multiple claws. I have several partial Suchomimus claws. This claw looks very different from them. Thanks for the help!

[Kikokuryu]

Just now, Mikej_fossils said:

@Kikokuryu Thank you for the reply. This claw came from a lot of multiple claws. I have several partial Suchomimus claws. This claw looks very different from them. Thanks for the help!

Interesting. That's actually good to know the claws can come in mixed lots as well.

[Troodon]

Always a tough call with claws missing the proximal end.  We know so little of what they look like and dont forget the Ornithischians.  The shape suggest  sauropod, that broken back end would not be that solid if its theropod.   So its my best guess. 

 

Has far as provenance anything from Gadoufaoua region should be considered questionable.  I have a hard time believing that the locals know what beds they are in or if they are in Jurassic deposits.  The beds of the Tegama group are on top of one another why its a group designation.  My concerns were realized with this late 2022 publication showing the region.

 

Microvertebrate fauna from Gadoufaoua (Niger, Aptian, Early Cretaceous)  2022

Yohan POCHAT-COTTILLOUX et al.

[Kikokuryu]

8 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Has far as provenance anything from Gadoufaoua region should be considered questionable.  I have a hard time believing that the locals know what beds they are in or if they are in Jurassic deposits.  The beds of the Tegama group are on top of one another why its a group designation.  My concerns were realized with this late 2022 publication showing the region.

That does look pretty bad. Agadez as a locale was already bad as is, but Niger as a whole looks like a lost cause for ID, or even figuring out age/formation except for the really obvious stuff.

 

How precise does a provenance need to be? I have pieces from probably Marandet (given to me as "Marandade") which I believe is in Aderbissinat where the published Tiourarén Formation teeth come from. A different batch had "Effonfone" which I can't figure out at all. It's all likely lost in translation due to a language barrier somewhere down the line.

[Troodon]

46 minutes ago, Kikokuryu said:

That does look pretty bad. Agadez as a locale was already bad as is, but Niger as a whole looks like a lost cause for ID, or even figuring out age/formation except for the really obvious stuff.

 

How precise does a provenance need to be? I have pieces from probably Marandet (given to me as "Marandade") which I believe is in Aderbissinat where the published Tiourarén Formation teeth come from. A different batch had "Effonfone" which I can't figure out at all. It's all likely lost in translation due to a language barrier somewhere down the line.

 

Not sure what to tell you but everything is suspect.  Even the Tiourarén Fm is part of the Irhazer Group because it overlies the Irhazer Shale who's exposures are in the same region.   I have to also believe that fossils can pass through many hands so does the final buyer know where it came from or does the seller use a known locality like Aderbissinat.   The best chance of a good provenance from Niger is buying from sellers who are buying direct from diggers.  

[Mikej_fossils]

Thanks @Troodon and @Kikokuryu: this is what i know. The diggers usually bring the fossils to a central location. Here they are brought together in lots. This happens to most teeth, vertebrae and claws. The fossils are usually mixed, but sometimes it is sorted by species (dinosaur, croc, etc) or type (vertebral, claw, etc). This is done based on local knowledge. I have seen multiple lots of claws (5, 7 to sometimes 10 specimens) Information about location is often lost because there are many links to the final seller.

 

And good to know it's probably a Sauropod claw! Thanks again!

[jpc]

5 hours ago, Kikokuryu said:

 

 

How precise does a provenance need to be? I have pieces from probably Marandet (given to me as "Marandade") which I believe is in Aderbissinat where the published Tiourarén Formation teeth come from. A different batch had "Effonfone" which I can't figure out at all. It's all likely lost in translation due to a language barrier somewhere down the line.

Aderbissenat and Marandet are two very different places with different rock units.  The beds at Marandet are primarily Tiouraren and Irhazer Shale.  But these are the flat wide open beds at the base of the cliffs.  The cliffs (les falaises de Tiguidit) are the overlying Tegama Group (in green on the upper map.)  I was there n the 90's and all the dinosaurs we collected were in the lower beds, probably Tiouraren, but some of the microsites we saw were in the bottom of the cliff face... I have no idea where the difference between the two formations lies.  My guess is that anything that gets smuggled out of Niger from Marandet can be from either Fm.   

Edited January 23, 2023 by jpc