Shellseeker Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I went out hunting today, needed the exercise. Predicted afternoon showers, but warm and sunny all morning. I was doing pretty well, constant finds of Bull, Dusky, Tiger shark teeth, mixed with Osteoderms from Alligator, Armadillo, Glyptodon. About 1:30, getting ready to kayak back to my truck in order to beat the rains, I saw something that I did not recognize in the sieve. xx I turned it over and over trying to figure out what it might be... When I saw this next edge, I thought I knew... But maybe I was incorrect. What do you think it is... But I am running out of time.... I spotted a VERY small tooth, complete with roots.... I have a guess but I see what others think. Then a 1st timer for me... and one of my favorites, a Cetacean ear bone and a big one at that... These were all in the same sieve... along with a couple of shark teeth and a large Gar Fish scale... Really fortunate... I left after this sieve because I knew the next sieve likely would not be as good, and if I kept digging, I would get drenched.... 1 4 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 First one is Probiscidean enamel, right? Mastodon or Gomph from the looks of it. And that’s a very pretty little deer tooth! 2 Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PODIGGER Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 Would think the first is mastodon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 4 hours ago, Meganeura said: First one is Probiscidean enamel, right? Mastodon or Gomph from the looks of it. And that’s a very pretty little deer tooth! 4 minutes ago, PODIGGER said: Would think the first is mastodon. Yes, that is the crux of the matter. Once I saw the 2nd photo, I knew it must be Mastodon or Gomph. Is there sufficient detail in the 3rd photo to lean one way or the other ?. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/63498-mastodon-or-gomphothere/&/topic/63498-mastodon-or-gomphothere/?p=664438 I managed to acquire this one from @Harry Pristis recently, and had a small Gomph of my own... On the tooth, size alone would seem to dictate deer. Just working on the position upper/lower, left/right, M1/m1 ? or The 3rd one looks fishy to me. Maybe @Al Dente has insight or experience... The ear bone I believe is our favorite whale in SW Florida... Kogiopsis 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Dente Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 48 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: The 3rd one looks fishy to me. Maybe @Al Dente has insight or experience... Might be a ray denticle. Do you have a photo of the other side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shellseeker said: The 3rd one looks fishy to me. sturgeon. genus Acipenser Edited February 4, 2023 by hemipristis 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Shellseeker said: Yes, that is the crux of the matter. Once I saw the 2nd photo, I knew it must be Mastodon or Gomph. Is there sufficient detail in the 3rd photo to lean one way or the other ?. http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/63498-mastodon-or-gomphothere/&/topic/63498-mastodon-or-gomphothere/?p=664438 I managed to acquire this one from @Harry Pristis recently, and had a small Gomph of my own... On the tooth, size alone would seem to dictate deer. Just working on the position upper/lower, left/right, M1/m1 ? or The 3rd one looks fishy to me. Maybe @Al Dente has insight or experience... The ear bone I believe is our favorite whale in SW Florida... Kogiopsis I’m thinking the deer tooth is a deciduous premolar! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Al Dente said: Might be a ray denticle. Do you have a photo of the other side? Here is the back... Also found this Buckler.... I think I will have to consolidate... these are fragile... 2 hours ago, hemipristis said: sturgeon. genus Acipenser Fantastic, Thank you !!! Assume it is a scale ? Is this also fish.... I cleaned it off and it seemed similar The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) On 2/5/2023 at 4:40 AM, Shellseeker said: Here is the back... I think I will have to consolidate... these are fragile... Fantastic, Thank you !!! Assume it is a scale ? Sturgeons are ancient armored tanks. Their scales have evolved into essentially body armor. I'm not sure where "scale" ends and "dermal scute" begins. The flakiness (similar to fish bones), spongiform texture (seen in your piece in one corner), and the sometimes quasi-geometric shape are key. Here is a complete modern version (photo courtesy of Elasmo.com). BTW, yours is a sweet one! Edited February 6, 2023 by hemipristis 2 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 1:40 PM, Shellseeker said: Also found this Buckler.... Is this also fish.... I cleaned it off and it seemed similar These I don't recognize. 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 10:19 PM, hemipristis said: Sturgeons are ancient armored tanks. Their scales have evolved into essentially body armor. I'm not sure where "scale" ends and "dermal scute" begins. The flakiness (similar to fish bones), spongiform texture (seen in your piece in one corner), and the sometimes quasi-geometric shape are key. Here is a complete modern version (photo courtesy of Elasmo.com). BTW, yours is a sweet one! I was so pleased when you Identified this for me. I had no clue!!!! I went back to this location in the last couple of days and found MORE of these dermal scutes, 2 broken ones and this 58 x 40 x 7 mm one... They are VERY fragile... Sturgeon, wow. I am picking these out of a Florida creek. These are freshwater fish, so my current shallow creek must have been far different whenever this Sturgeon was making a home there...Just thought you would enjoy this photo, Ken also @digit The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 10:47 PM, Shellseeker said: I was so pleased when you Identified this for me. I had no clue!!!! I went back to this location in the last couple of days and found MORE of these dermal scutes, 2 broken ones and this 58 x 40 x 7 mm one... They are VERY fragile... Sturgeon, wow. I am picking these out of a Florida creek. These are freshwater fish, so my current shallow creek must have been far different whenever this Sturgeon was making a home there...Just thought you would enjoy this photo, Ken also @digit This one is surprisingly similar to my Tarpon scale in size and shape! Though I know Tarpon are salt water fish - just interesting comparison to think about. Very pretty scales Jack! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 10:47 PM, Shellseeker said: I was so pleased when you Identified this for me. I had no clue!!!! I went back to this location in the last couple of days and found MORE of these dermal scutes, 2 broken ones and this 58 x 40 x 7 mm one... They are VERY fragile... Sturgeon, wow. I am picking these out of a Florida creek. These are freshwater fish, so my current shallow creek must have been far different whenever this Sturgeon was making a home there...Just thought you would enjoy this photo, Ken also @digit Very nice! theyre like potato chips, I warn you: you will be unable to stop picking them up haha. Your second find there is another complete one. Good stuff 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 20 hours ago, Meganeura said: This one is surprisingly similar to my Tarpon scale in size and shape! Though I know Tarpon are salt water fish - just interesting comparison to think about. Very pretty scales Jack! I’d love to see the Tarpon scale! 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 On 2/9/2023 at 10:47 PM, Shellseeker said: I was so pleased when you Identified this for me. I had no clue!!!! I went back to this location in the last couple of days and found MORE of these dermal scutes, 2 broken ones and this 58 x 40 x 7 mm one... They are VERY fragile... Sturgeon, wow. I am picking these out of a Florida creek. These are freshwater fish, so my current shallow creek must have been far different whenever this Sturgeon was making a home there...Just thought you would enjoy this photo, Ken also @digit Sturgeons may be anadromous. They can be found in fresh, estuarine and salt water 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 3 hours ago, hemipristis said: I’d love to see the Tarpon scale! Keith, you’ve seen it before! I’ll send better pics of it to you this evening though if you’d like. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarykah Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 2/4/2023 at 1:40 PM, Shellseeker said: Is this also fish.... I cleaned it off and it seemed similar Hmm… I found something that I believe is the same as this. I temporarily labeled mine as base of deer antler but wanted to return to it once I saw something similar. Did you determine anything about yours yet? Here are some pics of mine. 22mm x 10.6mm. The dark side is indented. I have the same fascination with oddities as you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 For comparison: 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 28, 2023 Author Share Posted March 28, 2023 7 hours ago, Amarykah said: Hmm… I found something that I believe is the same as this. I temporarily labeled mine as base of deer antler but wanted to return to it once I saw something similar. Did you determine anything about yours yet? Here are some pics of mine. 22mm x 10.6mm. The dark side is indented. I have the same fascination with oddities as you do Thank you. You have helped me tremendously !!!! It is some of the magic of TFF for me. I do not now what my find is... I do not have a clue... and unfortunately I do not now what your is... but I am going to work hard on identification.. WHY ? you reopened this thread, and @Harry Pristis got a 2nd pass on it. Harry has FANTASTIC collections that go back ,at least into the Miocene.. He saw and recognized a tooth of one of the earliest deer... Eocoileus gentryorum from the Palmetto local fauna of Florida, USA, at 5 Ma-4.7 Ma (Webb et al., 2008). and I found one, and Harry identified it. I can not thank either of you enough !!!! I am up at 3am and drive 9 hours tomorrow... When I get back, I will focus on your find. 3 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: Thank you. You have helped me tremendously !!!! It is some of the magic of TFF for me. I do not now what my find is... I do not have a clue... and unfortunately I do not now what your is... but I am going to work hard on identification.. WHY ? you reopened this thread, and @Harry Pristis got a 2nd pass on it. Harry has FANTASTIC collections that go back ,at least into the Miocene.. He saw and recognized a tooth of one of the earliest deer... Eocoileus gentryorum from the Palmetto local fauna of Florida, USA, at 5 Ma-4.7 Ma (Webb et al., 2008). and I found one, and Harry identified it. I can not thank either of you enough !!!! I am up at 3am and drive 9 hours tomorrow... When I get back, I will focus on your find. Sigh. Now I’m going to have to look through my deer teeth to see if I can find something similar… Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarykah Posted March 28, 2023 Share Posted March 28, 2023 ..my thoughts went here, too, when wondering what mine was. Maybe it will give you an idea I’ll be at the river tomorrow looking for more oddities! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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