Shellseeker Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 I found this bone hunting with @DirtyHippie. It seemed Odd in that we were primarily finding marine material (shark, marine mammal, dugong) in a PlioMiocene layer. I immediately thought Pleistocene calcaneum, tossed into my collection bag and continued hunting. After looking at it for a couple of hours, checking out Ulna, Radioulna for many mammals, I have decided to request help. The broken bone is 83 x 20 x 17 mm... about 3.25 inches long The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Looks to me like the proximal head of a radio-ulna. 2 2 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 Thanks Harry, I agree... But I want to know the Genus of the mammal, and if I can get that , possibly the species... I have found Bos and Hemiauchenia Ulna and they are quite a bit larger and look different.. There is a clear "ridge" up the back, the crown is very different. As I look at a radioulna for Bison, it is very different and far more robust.... This is a good sized animal that would have been found and documented by the scientists and researchers.. So I should be able to find a research paper or fossil photo ... that matches this bone pretty closely. This will take a while, but I am hoping that someone has stumbled across this bone previously and can get me a photo /picture that looks pretty much the same... Thanks for the confirmation of RadioUnla... I spent too long looking at Calcaneum.. Here is what's triggering my curiosity... Most of the Ulnas I have seen are Pleistocene or the more common animals... Why is it different ? Maybe it is predator ... maybe not... It was found with few other mammal fossils.. Could have fallen in later, but maybe it is a pliocene/miocene mammal like the layer is...Gives me lots of incentive to identify... Jack The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 This looks like a solidly fused radius ulna.... not like the weakly fused ungulates. Manatee.... 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 18 minutes ago, jpc said: This looks like a solidly fused radius ulna.... not like the weakly fused ungulates. Manatee.... I LOVE this forum... Never occurred to me... You either got it or put me on the right path... Just looked at Manatee radioulna that PrehistoricFlorida has up... It has the ridge and low crown... https://www.prehistoricflorida.com/product/fossils-recently-sold/uncommon-manatee-radius-ulna/9621/ 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 Manatee seems like a good guess. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Manatee seems like a good guess. I am still not sure, Harry... I wish I could get this fossil into your hands for evaluation... I believe Manatee makes a lot of sense based on the layers it was found in... the size is also right and it has the "ridge"... all good indicators... It is oddly off center... Thanks for the great photo... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 18, 2023 Share Posted February 18, 2023 don't let the off center fool you... we have not seen the same view of the identified manatee rad/ulna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 18, 2023 Author Share Posted February 18, 2023 15 minutes ago, jpc said: don't let the off center fool you... we have not seen the same view of the identified manatee rad/ulna. Understood. I am real close.. just trying to close the deal. I always like to view a side by side comparison that shows significant or great similarities. In this case , it is difficult. There are not many rad/ulna fossil photos of any animal to look at.. The best are when dealers are selling them because they provide views of 6 sides, give the measurements , etc, etc I have marked the find as a Manatee Rad/Ulna and will move on , but always keeping an eye out for that head _on photo 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahnmut Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Here is a 3d scan of a manatee radioulna : https://pinshape.com/items/39186-3d-printed-manatee-radius-and-ulna-high-resolution-scan Best Regards, J 1 Try to learn something about everything and everything about something Thomas Henry Huxley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 4 hours ago, Mahnmut said: Here is a 3d scan of a manatee radioulna : https://pinshape.com/items/39186-3d-printed-manatee-radius-and-ulna-high-resolution-scan Best Regards, J I was skeptical... I am no more... I will likely be able to figure out whether this is the left or right flipper..... Thanks to you, @jpc and @Harry Pristis... Your eyes were able to distinguish details that I had trouble seeing... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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