Is Troodon really a valid genus?

[Fossil Collect]

Over the past few months I have seriously been doubting the validity of Troodon. For the majority of the time I’ve known about Troodon I thought it was valid, however I’ve started to doubt its validity. The main reason is that it’s only described from one tooth. I thought I’d bring this question here because there’s a lot more people here that know more about paleontology and taxonomy than me. Thanks for any help!

[Troodon]

The good news is that moving forward tooth taxons should no longer exist.   Troodon formosus is a valid genus but it all depends on what stratigraphic unit you are talking about.

 

It's described from Judith River Fm deposits and still remains valid.   

What else would I call this maxilla.  The teeth are a match to the holotype.

 

Other deposits in Canada's have described two different Troodontids, Latenivenatrix mcmasterae from the Upper part of the Dinosaur Park Formation and resurrected Stenonychosaurus inequalis from the lower part of that same formation.

 

That paper makes this statement

"Although the validity of Troodon formosus may be contentious, future discoveries... that are positively identified as Troodon formosus, however, they must originate from the Judith River Formation in the region from where the holotype was recovered.

At the time a new specimen from the type locality is described, specimens from dif-
ferent formations and times can then properly be assigned to Troodon formosus"

 

I will continue to use cf Troodon formosus  on teeth of this morphology that are found in the Lance, Hell Creek and Two Medicine Formations until they are formally described.

[Fossil Collect]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:35 PM, Troodon said:

The good news is that moving forward tooth taxons should no longer exist.   Troodon formosus is a valid genus but it all depends on what stratigraphic unit you are talking about.

 

It's described from Judith River Fm deposits and still remains valid.   

What else would I call this maxilla.  The teeth are a match to the holotype.

 

Other deposits in Canada's have described two different Troodontids, Latenivenatrix mcmasterae from the Upper part of the Dinosaur Park Formation and resurrected Stenonychosaurus inequalis from the lower part of that same formation.

 

That paper makes this statement

"Although the validity of Troodon formosus may be contentious, future discoveries... that are positively identified as Troodon formosus, however, they must originate from the Judith River Formation in the region from where the holotype was recovered.

At the time a new specimen from the type locality is described, specimens from dif-
ferent formations and times can then properly be assigned to Troodon formosus"

 

I will continue to use cf Troodon formosus  on teeth of this morphology that are found in the Lance, Hell Creek and Two Medicine Formations until they are formally described.

Thanks! Does this mean that Pectinodon is possibly troodon formosus? Or are they two separate genus’ and species?

[Troodon]

Both are tooth taxons but the morphology of the teeth of Pectinodon are significantly different than those of Troodon.    In the Hell Creek and Lance Fm we have two Troodontids, only one named.    I don't believe any Pectinodon teeth have been documented from the JRF.

[siteseer]

12 minutes ago, Troodon said:

Both are tooth taxons but the morphology of the teeth of Pectinodon are significantly different than those of Troodon.    In the Hell Creek and Lance Fm we have two Troodontids, only one named.    I don't believe any Pectinodon teeth have been documented from the JRF.

 

Hi Troodon,

 

The plural of "taxon" is "taxa." 

 

The spelling of "Harve" in the photo is "Havre" assuming you're referring to the city in Hill County, Montana.

 

Has every trace of the gem/mineral/fossil shows been swept up now?  I've stopped in Tucson at other times of the year.  It was pretty quiet.

 

Jess

 

 

[Troodon]

Thanks, Yea that's a typo on Havre.  The last time I went into town only the tents remain

[lesofprimus]

On 2/19/2023 at 11:17 AM, Troodon said:

Both are tooth taxons but the morphology of the teeth of Pectinodon are significantly different than those of Troodon. In the Hell Creek and Lance Fm we have two Troodontids, only one named. I don't believe any Pectinodon teeth have been documented from the JRF.

 

 

I just acquired these 2 Hell Creek teeth that were labeled as Stenonychosaurus but after doing some research, I believe they are either Troodon bakkeri or Troodon formosus.

 

Any assistance on correctly identifying these would be beyond helpful Troodon.

[Troodon]

2 minutes ago, lesofprimus said:

I just acquired these 2 Hell Creek teeth that were labeled as Stenonychosaurus but after doing some research, I believe they are either Troodon bakkeri or Troodon formosus.

 

Any assistance on correctly identifying these would be beyond helpful Troodon.

These should really be posted in the ID section and not hijack this topic.  Information needed is size and location.

[lesofprimus]

Apologies, It seemed like the right place to post up as the topic matches perfectly to my query.

 

The teeth are in the mail so I'm unsure as to the sizes as of yet, and all I have for location is Hell Creek.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Troodon]

Well that's what the ID section is all about.  When you get the information please provide it

[Tidgy's Dad]

Interesting. 

How many valid Troodon bits are known, please?

[Troodon]

3 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Interesting. 

How many valid Troodon bits are known, please?

It's a tooth taxon described from the Judith River Formation.   Troodontid material from the Two Med, Lance and Hell Creek Fm are identified as

cf Troodon formosus or cf Troodon sp.   Troodontid material from other North American deposits have other names

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, Troodon said:

It's a tooth taxon described from the Judith River Formation.   Troodontid material from the Two Med, Lance and Hell Creek Fm are identified as

cf Troodon formosus or cf Troodon sp.   Troodontid material from other North American deposits have other names

How many teeth? 

[Troodon]

Tooth taxons is an outdated method for identification of dinosaurs that is no longer used.  Typically it's one specimen.   Described material for other Troodontids is usually based on fragmentary material since very little material had been found.  We have no skeletons or partial ones.  The maxilla shown above is probably the best known Troodon specimen from the Judith River

[Tidgy's Dad]

Interesting. 

So, if the maxilla is valid, how many other specimens are there?   

[Troodon]

4 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said:

Interesting. 

So, if the maxilla is valid, how many other specimens are there?   

I have no idea what's in museums

[Tidgy's Dad]

1 hour ago, Troodon said:

I have no idea what's in museums

Okay,  get that, but how many do you know of?

[Troodon]

 I don't know,  I dont have access to museum collections.  I dont go out looking to see what bits of Troodon are in museums.  Not a priority of mine or interest.  Claws are the most common item found.

[Randyw]

@Tidgy's Dad the last i heard there were 115 specimens attributed to troodon world wide but that information is a couple years old so there may be more now. Unfortunatly as it’s being used as a “trashcan” i wouldnt be surprised if some are eventually removed after more study…