Done Drillin Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Picked up this small horse tooth on the bank of the St Mary’s River today and am having a tough time deciding on who the previous owner was - horse tooth enthusiasists what are your thoughts - the crown measurements are 15mm x 7mm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 It is a lower Tridactyl horse tooth.. Nice find!!!! It is harder to figure an ID for a lower.. Might need @fossillarry. I have dinner coming up. I will attempt to match after dinner. 2 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) Has the... ectoflexid? I don't remember the name - but the little pattern on the side - which is indicative of Nannippus westoni I believe? Edited February 20, 2023 by Meganeura Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 @Done Drillin http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/110466-horse-tooth/ I believe that you have one of the left lower teeth of a species of the Genus Nannippus... Take a look at the photo below. Does your tooth have a protostylid? Daniel, the word you seek is protostylid. N.aztecus does not have one and the rest of the small Nannippus species do. The red circle shows in N. westoni on the left but not N. aztecus on the right... The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 7 hours ago, Shellseeker said: @Done Drillin http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/110466-horse-tooth/ I believe that you have one of the left lower teeth of a species of the Genus Nannippus... Take a look at the photo below. Does your tooth have a protostylid? Daniel, the word you seek is protostylid. N.aztecus does not have one and the rest of the small Nannippus species do. The red circle shows in N. westoni on the left but not N. aztecus on the right... Ah, protostylid was definitely the word I was looking for, thanks Jack! I know N. westoni is found in St Mary’s, so… I’d say that fits. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Cannot make out a protostylid on the tooth - thank you for the diagram that shows the difference between N. Aztecus and the other nannippus horses . Very helpful ! Love the different artists renditions of how these little guys actually looked - oh to see little striped horses running around Florida ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Done Drillin said: Cannot make out a protostylid on the tooth - thank you for the diagram that shows the difference between N. Aztecus and the other nannippus horses . Very helpful ! Love the different artists renditions of how these little guys actually looked - oh to see little striped horses running around Florida ! You got one right here! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 Hmmmm Hmmm - I see what you are talking about. It’s very indistinct compared to the ideal specimens @Shellseeker demonstrated but there is something there for sure - just not certain if it’s how that edge wore down or eroded ? Time for new glasses I guess ! Good spotting 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 20, 2023 Author Share Posted February 20, 2023 After further examination with better light and magnification ( @Meganeura you are correct - it does have a protostylid so N. westoni is a good candidate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Done Drillin said: After further examination with better light and magnification ( @Meganeura you are correct - it does have a protostylid so N. westoni is a good candidate I've got decent enough eyes still, I know what I saw! Also probably helps that I've spent far too long looking at various 3-toed teeth in hopes of learning them. I'm glad I was able to (possibly) ID this one successfully, seems I'm slowly learning! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 @Done Drillin Congratulations !!! I think I could tell you the exact tooth position, using the chart below. Can you? 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Okay - tried to do a rubbing of the occlusal surface and that was a no go so did a free hand drawing and it more closely resembles “D”to me - “I” would be my second guess .How confident would you be to label this as N. westoni as opposed to the other Nannippus species ( eliminating N.aztecus)? I have seen the chart with the upper tooth measurements for 3 toed horses- is there such a chart for lower teeth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 53 minutes ago, Done Drillin said: Okay - tried to do a rubbing of the occlusal surface and that was a no go so did a free hand drawing and it more closely resembles “D”to me - “I” would be my second guess .How confident would you be to label this as N. westoni as opposed to the other Nannippus species ( eliminating N.aztecus)? I have seen the chart with the upper tooth measurements for 3 toed horses- is there such a chart for lower teeth ? I don’t believe there is, actually. Best bet though, we wait for @fossillarry to confirm! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 My reason for asking is another even smaller horse tooth that I found in the same area several weeks ago that @Meganeura and I briefly discussed. The ATW is 7mm and the APL is 13mm. Thoughts on this one ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Done Drillin said: Okay - tried to do a rubbing of the occlusal surface and that was a no go so did a free hand drawing and it more closely resembles “D”to me - “I” would be my second guess .How confident would you be to label this as N. westoni as opposed to the other Nannippus species ( eliminating N.aztecus)? I have seen the chart with the upper tooth measurements for 3 toed horses- is there such a chart for lower teeth ? Apology for not being clear up front. I think it is "I", a right lower m1/m2 (which means or) of Nannippus westoni. Why do I think that ? 1) In this tread above, I included teeth rows for N. aztecus from Yepomera. Row E is E, Lp2-m2, meaning Left p2-m2. The "eyeglasses" lean left. On F, Rp2-m3, eyeglasses lean right. Your tooth, eyeglasses lean right. "D" is an example of a Lp34, "I" is an example of Rm12. Here is a Research paper, free on Researchgate, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/254313835_Late_Miocene_Nannippus_Mammalia_Perissodactyla_from_Florida_with_a_description_of_the_smallest_Hipparionine_horse Quote These are names of all the smallest horses that could have created your tooth. Aztecus has a protostylid, leaving Westoni and Morgani (which is significantly smaller), Skinneri and Calippus, look significantly different.. 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 20 minutes ago, Done Drillin said: My reason for asking is another even smaller horse tooth that I found in the same area several weeks ago that @Meganeura and I briefly discussed. The ATW is 7mm and the APL is 13mm. Thoughts on this one ? I expect Larry will either affirm or correct. It is a lower right m1 or m2 and does not have a protostylid... Makes me believe that it is N. aztecus. NICE tooth... 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 19 minutes ago, Shellseeker said: I expect Larry will either affirm or correct. It is a lower right m1 or m2 and does not have a protostylid... Makes me believe that it is N. aztecus. NICE tooth... Which is what we had come to believe, if I remember our conversation correctly @Done Drillin! Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Drillin Posted February 21, 2023 Author Share Posted February 21, 2023 Excellent paper - thank you for the link @Shellseeker ! I believe I found the same paper in my search but there was a fee associated with it. It certainly answers many questions I had. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now