fossilhunter21 Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 21 hours ago, jpc said: I use a shallow tray as you seem to do something similar. I draw parallel lines on it going back and forth about a cm apart. In the microscope I scan between the lines in a left to right then right to left fashion; back and forth. This allows me to scan every single rock and not waste time double scanning and not miss anything. I almost always have the tip of my tweezers visible in the microscope and move pieces about as needed. This allows me to be come totally accusotmed to managing the tip under the scope. Practice. Hi, JP. I saw your comment on another thread, and decided I would try it out on some White River micro matrix I have been working on, and it works pretty well! Much faster and easier! Just thought I would share some pics of the teeth I have found so far: My brother actually found a small lizard jaw sitting on top of the micro matrix. The lizard jaw is near the center of the container. I have searched through probably less than one gallon of sifted micro matrix. And to me, that seems pretty good! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 9 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said: Hi, JP. I saw your comment and decided I would try it out on some White River micro matrix I have been working on, and it works pretty well! Much faster and easier! Just thought I would share some pics of the teeth I have found so far: My brother actually found a small lizard jaw sitting on top of the micro matrix. The lizard jaw is near the center of the container. I have searched through probably less than one gallon of sifted micro matrix. And to me, that seems pretty good! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Nice specimens. What size matrix are you sieving and searching? Your specimens except for the lizard jaw look awfully big for micro specimens. I sieve down to 1 mm. Where are you taking your micro matrix from? In around 17 gallons of anthill matrix from our M&M Ranch in Nebraska I found 200,000+ specimens. A lot of the specimens were small bones or bone fragments (like pieces of small skulls) but I found 10,000+ mammal jaws, partial jaws, and individual teeth. I found also thousands of Squamate jaws, partial jaws, vertebrae and osteoderms. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Hi, Marco. Thanks! I have been using a 3mm sieve I found in the new house. I did not think about using a smaller size sieve, but definitely a good idea! I will see if I can make one up, and re-sift the micro matrix. I am got the material from a ranch near, Crawford called Our Heritage Guest Ranch. I actually am going to be working there as a guide. Wow...! Sounds like you found quite a few specimens! I am definitely going to try to re-sift the material! I just found a neat little jaw (middle of jar). I am thinking rodent? Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 10 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said: Hi, Marco. Thanks! I have been using a 3mm sieve I found in the new house. I did not think about using a smaller size sieve, but definitely a good idea! I will see if I can make one up, and re-sift the micro matrix. I am got the material from a ranch near, Crawford called Our Heritage Guest Ranch. I actually am going to be working there as a guide. Wow...! Sounds like you found quite a few specimens! I am definitely going to try to re-sift the material! I just found a neat little jaw (middle of jar). I am thinking rodent? Cheers and Shalom, -Micah The vast majority of the micro mammal specimens from our M&M Ranch are from rodents. From what I can see of the teeth, your jaw does look like it is from a rodent. I do find far fewer insectivore and marsupial specimens. Carnivore specimens are typically too large for micro matrix. You can't get a good fossil density just sifting in the regular collecting areas. You need something that concentrates the micro specimens. The harvester ants do a great job of covering their anthills with micro fossils. However, the fossils are only on the very surface of the mounds with the other debris that protects the anthill. So only scrape the very surface of the anthill for the matrix. It is tough for the ants in that badlands environment so I always leave some sugar cubes on the anthill after I take matrix. Not as good as the anthills, but recent wash areas with lots of visible small debris on the surface would be another place to take your matrix. The water concentrates the micros in these wash areas. A lense in the formation where water millions of years ago concentrated the micros (like river bends, river over wash areas, flood plain areas etc.) is another place to take matrix. However, I haven't found any visible lenses on our M&M Ranch. You would see lots of visible small debris in a few inch layer with a few visible fossils mixed in. Marco Sr. 5 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcoSr said: The harvester ants do a great job of covering their anthills with micro fossils. However, the fossils are only on the very surface of the mounds with the other debris that protects the anthill. So only scrape the very surface of the anthill for the matrix. It is tough for the ants in that badlands environment so I always leave some sugar cubes on the anthill after I take matrix. Very interesting. Though I'm not at all sure that I'd be particularly happy if someone stole my fossil collection and left me with some sugar cubes. 3 Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcoSr said: The vast majority of the micro mammal specimens from our M&M Ranch are from rodents. From what I can see of the teeth, your jaw does look like it is from a rodent. I do find far fewer insectivore and marsupial specimens. Carnivore specimens are typically too large for micro matrix. You can't get a good fossil density just sifting in the regular collecting areas. You need something that concentrates the micro specimens. The harvester ants do a great job of covering their anthills with micro fossils. However, the fossils are only on the very surface of the mounds with the other debris that protects the anthill. So only scrape the very surface of the anthill for the matrix. It is tough for the ants in that badlands environment so I always leave some sugar cubes on the anthill after I take matrix. Not as good as the anthills, but recent wash areas with lots of visible small debris on the surface would be another place to take your matrix. The water concentrates the micros in these wash areas. A lens in the formation where water millions of years ago concentrated the micros (like river bends, river over wash areas, flood plain areas etc.) is another place to take matrix. However, I haven't found any visible lens on our M&M Ranch. You would see lots of visible small debris in a few inch layer with a few visible fossils mixed in. Marco Sr. Hi, Marco. Thanks. I thought it looked quite a bite like rodent jaw, but am not super familiar with the fossils you can find in this micro matrix. Interesting that there are more rodents than anything. There must have been lots of rodents back then as well... Good Idea with only scraping the top off. I never would have thought of that. I think I may start to bring some sugar with me like you say you do. I think it is a nice idea. I will definitely keep an eye out for washes that contain micro material and lenses. I had never heard of a lense before, but it sure sounds awesome to find one! Thanks! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Tidgy's Dad said: Very interesting. Though I'm not at all sure that I'd be particularly happy if someone stole my fossil collection and left me with some sugar cubes. Hi, Adam. Just thought I would let you know that I am glad to hear that you are all right. How about a cookie? Cheers and Shalom, -Micah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tidgy's Dad Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Thank you, Micah. A bag of crisps would be better. Life's Good. Adam. Life's Good! Tortoise Friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tidgy's Dad said: A bag of crisps would be better. Life's Good. Adam. Hi, Adam. Good idea. I might actually try using crisps once the weather is a little dryer. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 HI Micah... I use screen boxes to wash my sediments, whether from anthills or micro-deposits. Here is a photo of a screen box and a photo of my screen washing set up. I use window screen for the screen. That is a storage bin full of water, and the drying rack above it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 Hi, JP. I think I might try this. There are some old windows screens in the garage that I could probably use. What size do you go down to with the micro matrix? Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 window screen is about 1 mm holes so that is the size. I am working on some micro mammals today (snow day) and may have some to post later today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) Hi, JP. Thanks! I will see if I can find some 1mm screens in the garage. I would love to see your finds. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Edited February 23, 2023 by fossilhunter21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hey Micah- From what I can see of your little rodent jaw, I think you are right.. an upper jaw (maxilla) of a small rodent. Cool. I put up a post about my adventures in micros for your viewing pleasure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hi, JP. I never thought I would find a rodent maxilla (my stubborn phone keeps changing it to manilla...). Pretty neat! 32 minutes ago, jpc said: I put up a post about my adventures in micros for your viewing pleasure. I just read the post, and you found some really neat specimens! I have to agree that #09 is really cool. It is interesting how you display/store the micros. I think I have heard of displaying/storing them like that before, but never seen any pictures of it until now. Thanks for posting! I really enjoyed it. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 10 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said: It is interesting how you display/store the micros. I think I have heard of displaying/storing them like that before, but never seen any pictures of it until now. I have not heard of anyone else mounting them like this... I like to think it is my invention. : ) It is inspired by the classic micro mount in which each tooth was mounted in a small vial with a cork top. A pin was stuck into the cork facing into the vial and the tooth was mounted on that pin. Problem was that many times the corks got put in there too tightly and as researchers opened them up, the sudden jolt of the cork freeing itself from the vial also caused the tooth to hit the side of the vial and get either knocked off, lost or broken. Also that technique made it difficult to actually see the fossils without opening the vial cuz you'd be looking through curved glass. There are thousands of such vials in Laramie at the U Wyo. And even more in bigger museums including CU there in your neighborhood and UC Berkeley in California. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 26 minutes ago, jpc said: I have not heard of anyone else mounting them like this... I like to think it is my invention. : ) It is inspired by the classic micro mount in which each tooth was mounted in a small vial with a cork top. A pin was stuck into the cork facing into the vial and the tooth was mounted on that pin. Problem was that many times the corks got put in there too tightly and as researchers opened them up, the sudden jolt of the cork freeing itself from the vial also caused the tooth to hit the side of the vial and get either knocked off, lost or broken. Also that technique made it difficult to actually see the fossils without opening the vial cuz you'd be looking through curved glass. There are thousands of such vials in Laramie at the U Wyo. And even more in bigger museums including CU there in your neighborhood and UC Berkeley in California. Hmm. Maybe I am thinking of something similar to it then? Your method definitely sounds pretty good! I may try it out one of these days. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpc Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 I have a video on how to do this. It is too big to attach here. I can email it to you, maybe. PM me your email address if you want. It takes me about an hour to mount 16 little teeth, and then an hour to photograph and make stereophotos. This is after I set up all the equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Hi, JP. I am definitely interested in the video. I may not try out the method for little while, but I am definitely interested. Sending PM. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 Update! Here are some photos of the teeth, partial teeth, partial maxillas, and partial jaws I have found so far: I counted them all up and it looks like so far I have found 287. Not bad! I also found this nice little vert. Any one have any ideas on this one? Now it is time for the 1mm material, and I have a feeling that it may take a while... Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 Well, I tried looking through the 1mm material for a couple hours, but found nothing. I found a couple teeth and bone pieces in the 2mm though. I was able to take pictures of the nicer specimens today. Here is a better picture of the vert. And the reptile jaw. And the rodent maxilla. Here is what I believe to be a little rodent molar? Here is what I believe to be a little rodent molar with some of the jaw? Here are what I believe to be rabbit teeth? I think these are rodent incisors? And here are some interesting partial teeth. No clue on any of these... White River micro matrix so addictive! I can't wait to go through some more. But I think my back needs a bit of a break... I made the mistake of combining micro matrix from different hills, and am now realized that was not a very good idea... I will keep matrix from different hills separate in the future! Thanks for looking! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 7 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said: Well, I tried looking through the 1mm material for a couple hours, but found nothing. I found a couple teeth and bone pieces in the 2mm though. I made the mistake of combining micro matrix from different hills, and am now realized that was not a very good idea... I will keep matrix from different hills separate in the future! With micro fossils unless you take your matrix from areas where they are concentrated (anthills, wash areas, lenses etc.) the fossil density is usually extremely low and not worth the time. In areas where there was running water the fossils tend to sort by weight. So you may have in an area a high concentration of microfossils by weight where they wicked to or an area where all the lightweight microfossils wicked away. Sample and determine if taking more matrix is worthwhile. Even adjacent hills can actually be from different levels of stratigraphy. By combining hills or anthills you can loose valuable scientific data on their microfossil placement within the stratigraphy. Marco Sr. 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted February 24, 2023 Author Share Posted February 24, 2023 Thank you for your reply, Marco. I found it very informative. I will definitely sample the micro matrix from now on 2 hours ago, MarcoSr said: Even adjacent hills can actually be from different levels of stratigraphy. By combining hills or anthills you can loose valuable scientific data on their microfossil placement within the stratigraphy. Yes. This is what I realized... I guess I was not thinking about this when I was collecting it. I will definitely keep them separate from now on! I am trying to learn more and more about collecting data. Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fossilhunter21 Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 Hey everyone! I just got finished with some micro matrix I recently collected, and just thought I would share some pics of my finds. I did not find a whole lot of nice teeth, but I found some pretty neat ones. Here is a picture of all the teeth and partial teeth. Unfortunately no jaws or maxillas... And some close-ups of the nicest teeth. I think these are partial lizard osteoderms? And I think this might be a piece of bird egg? Not entirely certain. And here are the bone pieces. Some of these are pretty neat looking. Thanks for looking! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoSr Posted March 6, 2023 Share Posted March 6, 2023 15 hours ago, fossilhunter21 said: I just got finished with some micro matrix I recently collected, and just thought I would share some pics of my finds. I did not find a whole lot of nice teeth, but I found some pretty neat ones. I think these are partial lizard osteoderms? And I think this might be a piece of bird egg? Not entirely certain. Thanks for looking! Cheers and Shalom, -Micah Nice specimens and nice pictures. The one group of specimens looks like lizard osteoderms (see below pictures for some different types/shapes). The other specimen does look like a piece of bird eggshell (see the below pictures). All the eggshell that I've found on the M&M Ranch (very common in the anthill matrix throughout the ranch) looks similar to the below specimen. Lizard osteoderms (I only found one of the first type): Bird eggshell (5 mm x 3 mm x 1 mm) Marco Sr. 3 1 "Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day." My family fossil website Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros My Extant Shark Jaw Collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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