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Is this an Auriculatus?


Largemouth Bass

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The seller states that this is a ~13 mm posterior O. auriculatus tooth from Bone Valley. It looks similar to the lower posteriors in this paper, but I would like to get a more educated opinion before adding it to my collection. Unfortunately, these are the highest quality images given.

BEC65A14-73D4-4BE5-9624-56A444EAF1B9.jpeg

DCF30E1C-DAD3-46D9-BEDB-A1688661CD75.jpeg

B0921943-75EE-486E-80FC-87F56DA5BD09.jpeg

Edited by Largemouth Bass
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I don't see any serrations, which would exclude any of the Otodus lineage.  Note that "auriculatus" has not been classified with Carcharodon in some time.

 

Don

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I'll see if I can get better images from the seller. In another photo it appears that there may be very worn serrations, but the image quality makes it difficult to determine. And I know the species is in Otodus now, that was just the only paper I could find with an auriculatus tooth set. :dinothumb:

4DD15F60-DF42-4EEE-9765-3053B1084CDD.jpeg

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To me the crown (central cusp) doesn't look wide enough to be from a mega-tooth shark lineage. It gives me a bit of a Carcharoides catticus feel but I think it is more likely a broken posterior tooth from Carcharias taurus. Let's see what others think.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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I feel like there are worn serrations, but I'm not seeing a bourlette, so I would vote not Otodus.

Fin Lover

 

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My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs.

 

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Yup. Serrations can be an issue. There could be evidence of very worn serrations or (like many shark teeth) there could be a thin cutting edge to the tooth enamel that can get dinged-up over time creating the appearance of worn serrations. I wouldn't testify to the presence/absence of serrations on this specimen--just seems to vague to me.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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With the curve on the tooth going forward like that, I’d agree with Carcharias Taurus here:

1 hour ago, digit said:

To me the crown (central cusp) doesn't look wide enough to be from a mega-tooth shark lineage. It gives me a bit of a Carcharoides catticus feel but I think it is more likely a broken posterior tooth from Carcharias taurus. Let's see what others think.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

Especially given the fact that Bone Valley, assuming Florida, is not old enough for Auriculatus or even Angustidens. 
 

Actually - I remember that C. Hastalis can have cusps. The root certainly matches, as would the shape of a very posterior Hastalis. That would also match the BV location.

 

 

Edited by Meganeura
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Fossils? I dig it. :meg:

 

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This is all very interesting information! It is still a cute tooth. I find enough hastalis where I hunt, so I think I'll just wait for one like this to appear on its own. :D

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If hastalis can have cusps, that would be a good fit (assuming it didn't have serrations - Ken is right that it might just be dinged up).  Definitely an interesting tooth.

 

Fin Lover

 

image.png.e69a5608098eeb4cd7d1fc5feb4dad1e.png image.png.e6c66193c1b85b1b775526eb958f72df.png

image.png.7cefa5ccc279142681efa4b7984dc6cb.png

My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs.

 

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This tooth is definitely not an O. auriculatus.  The tooth has dings in a cutting edge and not serrations.  Transitional teeth can have crenulations but these definitely look like dings.  Small hastalis can have cusplets.  Hastalis is the ancestor of Carcharodon carcharias.  Extant juvenile C. carcharias can have cusplets on their teeth.  Below are pictures of two beautiful fossil juvenile C. carcharias teeth (an upper and a lower) from Chile from a sales website.

 

 

Carcharodon carcharias - Juvenile     

 

Carcharodon carcharias - Juvenile     

 

 

Marco Sr.

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"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

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1 hour ago, Fin Lover said:

Definitely an interesting tooth.

No doubt about that. Anytime a specimen is presented for ID and it doesn't clearly fit a simple identification but is ambiguous, then the fun starts. :)

 

Ambiguity reveals the thought processes used to attempt to identify a specimen and is much more edifying than just "Yup, a nice rugose coral" or "Real (but common) mosasaur tooth from Morocco". A quick and definitive ID is often of most use to the OP but the discussion about the features and the underlying thought process can prove even more useful in the long run (even if a certain ID is not possible).

 

We can certainly cross of Ptychodus, Isistius, and Petalodus off the list of suspects. :P

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I didn't know that C. carcharias can also have cusps, but even The Physicist's CRM entry seems to have a bit of one:

image.thumb.png.5725381f95fe033443ca60a613ac7d7d.png

 

But if we've ruled out serrations on the OP, then carcharias is out.  

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Fin Lover

 

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My favorite things about fossil hunting: getting out of my own head, getting into nature and, if I’m lucky, finding some cool souvenirs.

 

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@MarcoSr Do you know if modern C. carcharias juveniles can still have cusps? Or is this solely a fossil thing?

Fossils? I dig it. :meg:

 

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19 minutes ago, Meganeura said:

@MarcoSr Do you know if modern C. carcharias juveniles can still have cusps? Or is this solely a fossil thing?

 

Yes, modern juvenile C. carcharias teeth can have cusplets.  I have a small juvenile C. carcharias jaw in my collection bought almost 50 years ago where all the teeth have cusplets.  Unfortunately I haven't taken any pictures of it, but below is a picture of a juvenile jaw from elasmo.com.

 

 

image.png.dd47d49b00c34655916ebb3410f0d75d.png 

 

 

Marco Sr.

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"Any day that you can fossil hunt is a great day."

My family fossil website     Some Of My Shark, Ray, Fish And Other Micros     My Extant Shark Jaw Collection

image.png.9a941d70fb26446297dbc9dae7bae7ed.png image.png.41c8380882dac648c6131b5bc1377249.png

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