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Is this an Auriculatus?


Largemouth Bass

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Largemouth Bass

The seller states that this is a ~13 mm posterior O. auriculatus tooth from Bone Valley. It looks similar to the lower posteriors in this paper, but I would like to get a more educated opinion before adding it to my collection. Unfortunately, these are the highest quality images given.

BEC65A14-73D4-4BE5-9624-56A444EAF1B9.jpeg

DCF30E1C-DAD3-46D9-BEDB-A1688661CD75.jpeg

B0921943-75EE-486E-80FC-87F56DA5BD09.jpeg

Edited by Largemouth Bass
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FossilDAWG

I don't see any serrations, which would exclude any of the Otodus lineage.  Note that "auriculatus" has not been classified with Carcharodon in some time.

 

Don

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Largemouth Bass

I'll see if I can get better images from the seller. In another photo it appears that there may be very worn serrations, but the image quality makes it difficult to determine. And I know the species is in Otodus now, that was just the only paper I could find with an auriculatus tooth set. :dinothumb:

4DD15F60-DF42-4EEE-9765-3053B1084CDD.jpeg

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To me the crown (central cusp) doesn't look wide enough to be from a mega-tooth shark lineage. It gives me a bit of a Carcharoides catticus feel but I think it is more likely a broken posterior tooth from Carcharias taurus. Let's see what others think.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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Fin Lover

I feel like there are worn serrations, but I'm not seeing a bourlette, so I would vote not Otodus.

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Yup. Serrations can be an issue. There could be evidence of very worn serrations or (like many shark teeth) there could be a thin cutting edge to the tooth enamel that can get dinged-up over time creating the appearance of worn serrations. I wouldn't testify to the presence/absence of serrations on this specimen--just seems to vague to me.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

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Meganeura

With the curve on the tooth going forward like that, I’d agree with Carcharias Taurus here:

1 hour ago, digit said:

To me the crown (central cusp) doesn't look wide enough to be from a mega-tooth shark lineage. It gives me a bit of a Carcharoides catticus feel but I think it is more likely a broken posterior tooth from Carcharias taurus. Let's see what others think.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

Especially given the fact that Bone Valley, assuming Florida, is not old enough for Auriculatus or even Angustidens. 
 

Actually - I remember that C. Hastalis can have cusps. The root certainly matches, as would the shape of a very posterior Hastalis. That would also match the BV location.

 

 

Edited by Meganeura
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Largemouth Bass

This is all very interesting information! It is still a cute tooth. I find enough hastalis where I hunt, so I think I'll just wait for one like this to appear on its own. :D

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Fin Lover

If hastalis can have cusps, that would be a good fit (assuming it didn't have serrations - Ken is right that it might just be dinged up).  Definitely an interesting tooth.

 

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MarcoSr

This tooth is definitely not an O. auriculatus.  The tooth has dings in a cutting edge and not serrations.  Transitional teeth can have crenulations but these definitely look like dings.  Small hastalis can have cusplets.  Hastalis is the ancestor of Carcharodon carcharias.  Extant juvenile C. carcharias can have cusplets on their teeth.  Below are pictures of two beautiful fossil juvenile C. carcharias teeth (an upper and a lower) from Chile from a sales website.

 

 

Carcharodon carcharias - Juvenile     

 

Carcharodon carcharias - Juvenile     

 

 

Marco Sr.

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1 hour ago, Fin Lover said:

Definitely an interesting tooth.

No doubt about that. Anytime a specimen is presented for ID and it doesn't clearly fit a simple identification but is ambiguous, then the fun starts. :)

 

Ambiguity reveals the thought processes used to attempt to identify a specimen and is much more edifying than just "Yup, a nice rugose coral" or "Real (but common) mosasaur tooth from Morocco". A quick and definitive ID is often of most use to the OP but the discussion about the features and the underlying thought process can prove even more useful in the long run (even if a certain ID is not possible).

 

We can certainly cross of Ptychodus, Isistius, and Petalodus off the list of suspects. :P

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Fin Lover

I didn't know that C. carcharias can also have cusps, but even The Physicist's CRM entry seems to have a bit of one:

image.thumb.png.5725381f95fe033443ca60a613ac7d7d.png

 

But if we've ruled out serrations on the OP, then carcharias is out.  

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Meganeura

@MarcoSr Do you know if modern C. carcharias juveniles can still have cusps? Or is this solely a fossil thing?

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MarcoSr
19 minutes ago, Meganeura said:

@MarcoSr Do you know if modern C. carcharias juveniles can still have cusps? Or is this solely a fossil thing?

 

Yes, modern juvenile C. carcharias teeth can have cusplets.  I have a small juvenile C. carcharias jaw in my collection bought almost 50 years ago where all the teeth have cusplets.  Unfortunately I haven't taken any pictures of it, but below is a picture of a juvenile jaw from elasmo.com.

 

 

image.png.dd47d49b00c34655916ebb3410f0d75d.png 

 

 

Marco Sr.

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