Peace River - Mammoth carpal/tarsal, coral, and 2 limb bones

[Meganeura]

It has been a while since I’ve needed this many things ID’d! So found something I’m pretty sure is a mammoth carpal or tarsal bone (Or a toe? I really don’t know), a piece of… coral, maybe? And 2 limb bones.

 

1) Mammoth carpal/tarsal or toe - measures 6”x3.5”x2.5” or 150mmx90mmx63mm

A video to show it better is at the end.

 

Coral:

 

Limb 1 - measures 6.5”x1” or 160mmx27mm

 

Limb 2 - 4.2”x1.1” or 106mmx28mm

 

@Shellseeker @digit @Harry Pristis @Brandy Cole thanks in advance!

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Meganeura

[Brandy Cole]

I'd try comparing your carpal to the examples here.

 

https://umorf.ummp.lsa.umich.edu/wp/mammutidae2/

 

Reminds me a little of a lunar or pisiform, but since you have it in hand, you'd be a better judge.

 

I'm not great with long bones, but your first long bone looks like a partial radius to me.  I don't recognize it.

 

Your last one looks to be a humerus.  But a lot of times the most useful view to me in identifying those is the one that shows the olecranon fossa. That view isn't included here.  My first impression is that it resembles small horse.

[Brandy Cole]

Looking again at the humerus, deer is probably more likely.

[Meganeura]

8 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

Looking again at the humerus, deer is probably more likely.

Deer would definitely make sense, given how many deer stuff I find. I found 2 deer calcaneum today as well. Pretty sure they're deer anyway... might post them for an ID later.

[Meganeura]

16 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

I'd try comparing your carpal to the examples here.

 

https://umorf.ummp.lsa.umich.edu/wp/mammutidae2/

 

Reminds me a little of a lunar or pisiform, but since you have it in hand, you'd be a better judge.

 

I'm not great with long bones, but your first long bone looks like a partial radius to me.  I don't recognize it.

 

Your last one looks to be a humerus.  But a lot of times the most useful view to me in identifying those is the one that shows the olecranon fossa. That view isn't included here.  My first impression is that it resembles small horse.

It's absolutely the lunar, there's zero doubt in my mind there! Thank you!

[Brandy Cole]

@Meganeura Yeah, once I watched the video, I realized pisiform didn't look like a good fit.

[Shellseeker]

27 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

I'd try comparing your carpal to the examples here.

 

https://umorf.ummp.lsa.umich.edu/wp/mammutidae2/

 

Reminds me a little of a lunar or pisiform, but since you have it in hand, you'd be a better judge.

 

I'm not great with long bones, but your first long bone looks like a partial radius to me.  I don't recognize it.

 

Your last one looks to be a humerus.  But a lot of times the most useful view to me in identifying those is the one that shows the olecranon fossa. That view isn't included here.  My first impression is that it resembles small horse.

Thank you, Brandy.... GREAT ID tool.

  @digit Ken, do you think that UofM shares technology like this with say UF ?

[digit]

1 hour ago, Meganeura said:

Coral:

 

The vertebrate corals are above my pay grade but the coral appears to be a Manicinia sp. cf. M. areolata.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

16 minutes ago, Meganeura said:

It's absolutely the lunar, there's zero doubt in my mind there! Thank you!

Be as exact as you can in descriptions.... Left lunar...It will matter in a couple of years

[Meganeura]

1 minute ago, Shellseeker said:

Thank you, Brandy.... GREAT ID tool.

  @digit Ken, do you think that UofM shares technology like this with say UF ?

I know Hulbert is working on something similar!

[Meganeura]

1 minute ago, digit said:

The vertebrate corals are above my pay grade but the coral appears to be a Manicinia sp. cf. M. areolata.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

I've never seen a coral like this in the Peace before, so I had to keep it. It's really pretty. Thanks Ken!

[digit]

2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

@digit Ken, do you think that UofM shares technology like this with say UF ?

It is indeed a wonderful tool. I'll have to show that to some of the people at UF.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

[Shellseeker]

1 minute ago, digit said:

It is indeed a wonderful tool. I'll have to show that to some of the people at UF.

 

 

Cheers.

 

-Ken

I am not trying to reproduce what mammals any institution does,  but to use the technology to render those fauna that might be unique to the State that they are found in...

Like maybe small horses from Florida

 

[Meganeura]

2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

I am not trying to reproduce what mammals any institution does,  but to use the technology to render those fauna that might be unique to the State that they are found in...

Like maybe small horses from Florida

 

I'd agree with you there, Jack. Some 3D program like this for 3-toed horses would be incredible. I'd definitely add Holmesina and some big cats (Rhizosmilodon for example) to that list. Sloths too.

[Shellseeker]

34 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Be as exact as you can in descriptions.... Left lunar...It will matter in a couple of years

Never depend on someone else's ID when you have the bone in hand.

This is the left lunar of a Mastodon,  I am unsure if you have Left or Right,  Mammoth or Mastodon....

[Meganeura]

2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

Never depend on someone else's ID when you have the bone in hand.

This is the left lunar of a Mastodon,  I am unsure if you have Left or Right,  Mammoth or Mastodon....

I'm unsure as well. And it seems I have the right one... but with one face worn off it's hard to tell.

[Shellseeker]

4 minutes ago, Meganeura said:

I'm unsure as well. And it seems I have the right one... but with one face worn off it's hard to tell.

I recognized my error,  Identifying yours as "Left",  when on retrospection,  I could see it as 'Right".  We only have this exact one for Mastodon.  I do not know if we could differentiate even if e had an equivalent photo for a Mammoth right lunar.

This is exciting technology for a Fossil enthusiast.

[Meganeura]

2 minutes ago, Shellseeker said:

I recognized my error,  Identifying yours as "Left",  when on retrospection,  I could see it as 'Right".  We only have this exact one for Mastodon.  I do not know if we could differentiate even if e had an equivalent photo for a Mammoth right lunar.

This is exciting technology for a Fossil enthusiast.

Yeah the model seems to show that both sides look similar to the point where even differentiating the two if I had the left AND right in hand would be difficult... Ah well. Probiscidean Lunar bone works for me - and it's a pretty great find if I do say so myself!

[Brandy Cole]

@Shellseeker It has helped me several times!  I think @JohnJwas the first one to share it with me when I found a couple of mammoth carpal bones.

[Brandy Cole]

I used this page from Olsen's Osteology for the Archaeologist book 3 to come to lunar as a possible ID.

 

It shows distinctions between mammoth and mastodon.

[Meganeura]

2 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said:

I used this page from Olsen's Osteology for the Archaeologist book 3 to come to lunar as a possible ID.

 

It shows distinctions between mammoth and mastodon.

Oooh its Mastodon then.

[Brandy Cole]

@Meganeura. That's the direction I am leaning, but wasn't sure due to the wear in since places.

[Meganeura]

1 minute ago, Brandy Cole said:

@Meganeura. That's the direction I am leaning, but wasn't sure due to the wear in since places.

Mine is certainly more of a "T" shape like Mastodon as opposed to the "L" shape of mammoth - which the wear hasn't made impossible to tell.

[Brandy Cole]

@Meganeura Awesome find, by the way! Congrats!

[Brandy Cole]

I found what I think is a modern deer radius yesterday, and I think your radius may be deer as well.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Brandy Cole
Corrected description