Shellseeker Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I have not been out hunting enough, which has me looking at old TFF threads. I posted this canine 5 years ago in FosslID , but did not get much feedback and it faded without me learning much about it. Originally, I thought Alligator, because of the hollow root. but it did not have a horizontal edge between enamel and root, and the root was not an oval shape. Then I considered Dire wolf, because of the shape of the enamel, and the shaped carina down the side. I wondered at that time if the tooth was unerupted. I have never found/identified a Dire Wolf fossil from this site. Finally, because of the serrations ??, I thought Sabercat. The serrations are not clear, the root is oval... Please tell me what you think it is, and what you think it is not... I'd rather not have another 5 years go by... wondering. 5 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Definitely not gator. Shape looks like dire wolf to me, except for that quite defined carina. Maybe it’s another felid? Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minnbuckeye Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Modern day canine and feline do not have hollow roots. Were ancestors of the dog and cat different????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val horn Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Neat tooth Nice problem to have. Isn’t the degree of root opening dependent on the age and eruption status of a tooth. Any juvenile tooth could have a wide open apex. however the root structure looks very rough textured making me think of osteodentin rather than orthodentin and suggesting reptile. This maybe one for u of florida Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 4 hours ago, Meganeura said: Definitely not gator. Shape looks like dire wolf to me, except for that quite defined carina. Maybe it’s another felid? Yes, Daniel, my 1st thought 5 years ago was Alligator, just based on that open cavity root, and as Val Horn says more osteodentin than orthodentin textures. But then I stopped (which is rare while I am hunting) and noted the well defined carina and seemingly serrations . Now I am thinking of those great Dire Wolf Canine examples that @Harry Pristis has with well defined carina, tiny serrations, enamel sliding down into the lingual surface of the tooth.. Now I am really confused... 3 hours ago, minnbuckeye said: Modern day canine and feline do not have hollow roots. Were ancestors of the dog and cat different????? There you go again , Mike. Just stating scientific facts to interrupt my wandering mind.. I can not logically settle or defend an identification of Wolf or Cat... Are those not serrations ? Is that not a well defined carina? 2 hours ago, val horn said: Neat tooth Nice problem to have. Isn’t the degree of root opening dependent on the age and eruption status of a tooth. Any juvenile tooth could have a wide open apex. Yes, true. Could be un_erupted, but I think not a determinant factor due to your next point.... however the root structure looks very rough textured making me think of osteodentin rather than orthodentin and suggesting reptile. This maybe one for u of florida. Suggesting reptile with sliding enamel, well defined carina, and possible serrations... NOW, you all have the purpose of this post. 1) If anyone has a Alligator tooth with those features, Please post a photo... 2) If anyone knows of any reptile tooth with those features, Please name it....It certainly would be nice if such a reptile existed in the South East US eocene. I will send an email to the Florida Fossil Identification Service... Thanks for all the suggestions, Keep them coming. Jack 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Welp, I know almost nothing about predator teeth, but if you're looking for potential serrated tooth-holders in Florida, could some type of nimravidae be an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Looks to me like an unerupted bear upper canine. Definitely not reptilian. 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, Brandy Cole said: Welp, I know almost nothing about predator teeth, but if you're looking for potential serrated tooth-holders in Florida, could some type of nimravidae be an option? That's why we mentioned felids (Aren't nimravidae felids?) - but hmm. Reptile I can understand but I haven't seen a gator or croc tooth even remotely close to that sort of shape. Never a carina that well defined, that's for sure. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meganeura Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 minute ago, Harry Pristis said: Looks to me like an unerupted bear upper canine. Definitely not reptilian. Why bear specifically over canid/felid? Out of curiousity. Fossils? I dig it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Pristis Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 The root form is slightly inflated. 1 1 http://pristis.wix.com/the-demijohn-page What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? ---Shakespeare, The Tempest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 40 minutes ago, Harry Pristis said: Looks to me like an unerupted bear upper canine. Definitely not reptilian. Thanks Harry, I am really lost on this one... grasping for straws... Most of the morning I have followed the path of reptile (gator , croc).. Nate has lots of photos of Thecachampsa_americana (Florida 16-6 mya) teeth. No serrations, no well defined carina, no enamel crossing into the root area. I figure that if Carolina Crocs had these features , we would have heard about it by now. @Al Dente @hemipristis. Also , I started thinking of what else might have hollow roots and/or serrations @Boesse I will start looking at Bear upper canines for similarities.. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 As I told Harry above, I could not find serrations, well defined carina, enamel sliding down into root area on Florida gators or crocs. There are a lots of photos in this TFF thread from a year ago.. I am beginning to doubt reptile, looking to research other fauna. The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Family Fun Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 Love reading mysteries on this forum. It’s always a delight to learn something new. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shellseeker Posted March 21, 2023 Author Share Posted March 21, 2023 2 hours ago, Brandy Cole said: Welp, I know almost nothing about predator teeth, but if you're looking for potential serrated tooth-holders in Florida, could some type of nimravidae be an option? Quote Sabre-toothed cats existed from the Eocene through the Pleistocene Epoch (56 million to 11,700 years ago). According to the fossil record, the Nimravidae were extant from about 37 million to 7 million years ago. Only distantly related to felids, they include the genera Hoplophoneus, Nimravus, Dinictis, and Barbourofelis. The Machairodontinae, extant from about 12 million to less than 10,000 years ago, include the more familiar Smilodon as well as Homotherium and Meganteron. Sabre-toothed cats roamed North America and Europe throughout the Miocene and Pliocene epochs (23 million to 2.6 million years ago). Sorry for response delay, A "stand_in" for Nimravidae here in Florida might be Xenosmilus, related to Homotherium who I hear was found in Texas... Here are some Xenosmilus teeth. Now if I could see a "cusp" on the subject tooth, I would definitely be thinking Xenosmilus 3 1 The White Queen ".... in her youth she could believe "six impossible things before breakfast" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemipristis Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/22/2023 at 3:20 AM, Shellseeker said: Thanks Harry, I am really lost on this one... grasping for straws... Most of the morning I have followed the path of reptile (gator , croc).. Nate has lots of photos of Thecachampsa_americana (Florida 16-6 mya) teeth. No serrations, no well defined carina, no enamel crossing into the root area. I figure that if Carolina Crocs had these features , we would have heard about it by now. @Al Dente @hemipristis. Also , I started thinking of what else might have hollow roots and/or serrations @Boesse I will start looking at Bear upper canines for similarities.. hello and sorry for the delayed reply. Fieldwork in Guam heat has me crashing early (I am reminded that I'm not 20 anymore) I have not seen any NC croc teeth that resemble the tooth in question, nut crocs aren't my specialty 1 'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' George Santayana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now