Mochaccino Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 (edited) Hello, I am looking for some info on these three crusher shark teeth that I have. They were unidentified and without provenance when I acquired them, but based on the other material in the collection they were from they might be from the Pennsylvanian of Texas. There are 3 specimens and they range from 4.5 cm to 7.5 cm long in size. This is #1 and the largest: This is #2: And #3 the smallest: I had actually asked about these last year in this post, where @connorp suggested they might be from a genus called Fadenia. I wanted to get some targeted identification on them if possible, or perhaps get into contact with a paleontologist that could give a professional opinion. Thanks. Edited March 29, 2023 by Mochaccino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 @jdp @JimB88 @Archie Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Maybe Helodus? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missourian Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 It's interesting how all three teeth are worn at the same relative spot: 1 Context is critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, Fossildude19 said: @jdp @JimB88 @Archie 14 hours ago, jdp said: Maybe Helodus? Thank you. Would there be a paleontologist I could reach out to to get a professional opinion? Helodus does have elongated teeth like this one, but I lack the expertise to determine if it's the same genus. My specimens seem an order of magnitude larger than any Helodus teeth I can find. They also have that strange consistent wear surface on one side that @Missourian mentioned https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Holotype-of-Helodus-coxanus-Newberry-1897-USNM-V3518-a-Occlusal-view-Lingual-end-to_fig9_325609123 5 hours ago, Missourian said: It's interesting how all three teeth are worn at the same relative spot: or Yes I noticed that too. I assume this happened in life due to the positioning of the teeth relative to each other, or if perhaps the teeth are just naturally shaped that way. Edited March 30, 2023 by Mochaccino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB88 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Not Helodus. Far too big. They look like Orodus to me; which is more typical of the Pennsylvanian. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 @deutscheben @BobWill @Elasmohunter The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, JimB88 said: Not Helodus. Far too big. They look like Orodus to me; which is more typical of the Pennsylvanian. There are a dozen or so species attributed to Helodus and they have a range of sizes and, probably, phylogenetic affinities. Some are in that size range. They are not Orodus in a strict sense. they could be one of the various other animals that have been attributed to Orodus, which is a wastebasket taxon, much like Helodus. They might be some sort of eugeneodontiform (e.g. a parasymphyseal tooth of Agassizodus) but it's hard to tell. The specific wear pattern strikes me as consistent with Helodus. Edited March 30, 2023 by jdp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilDAWG Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Perhaps @Carl could run the photos past Dr Maisey for an opinion. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 They are closer to the size you would expect for Petalodus. If the striations could have been caused by wear that might be a better fit than Orodus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimB88 Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Petalodonts dont have bradyodont structures in their teeth as far as I know. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 12 hours ago, JimB88 said: Petalodonts dont have bradyodont structures in their teeth as far as I know. I agree and wear would not account for the uniformity of the enameloid ridges but it does seem odd that in some of these the ridges are missing from the peak of the crown where they would do the most good for a bradyodont structure. Maybe that is due to wear. I sent an email to Dr. Maisey asking for his opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdp Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Not petalodont. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWill Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 I got this reply from Dr. Maisey confirming the ID by @jdp: "Bob, I think the ID as Helodus is probably correct. However, ‘Helodus’ teeth may be present in some different, unrelated Paleozoic chondrichthyans (according to Duck Lund many years ago!) The other Fossil on that web page is an internal view of a broken spiriferid brachiopod. You can see the spiral supports for the feeding apparatus. Cheers John" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted April 4, 2023 Author Share Posted April 4, 2023 Thank you everyone @jdp @BobWill @JimB88 @FossilDAWG @JohnJ for your help! I know nothing of these type of teeth, so I guess a tentative ID for now could be Helodus sp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elasmohunter Posted April 5, 2023 Share Posted April 5, 2023 My knee-jerk identification for these teeth would be Orodus sp. They don't look like Helodus sp. to me, or at the least the Helodus specimens that I'm familiar with from the Mississippian. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mochaccino Posted April 6, 2023 Author Share Posted April 6, 2023 On 4/4/2023 at 7:01 PM, Elasmohunter said: My knee-jerk identification for these teeth would be Orodus sp. They don't look like Helodus sp. to me, or at the least the Helodus specimens that I'm familiar with from the Mississippian. I see, it seems Helodus runs from Devonian to Permian, so is it possible it is a Pennsylvanian or Permian species that looks different from Mississippian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 10:23 PM, FossilDAWG said: Perhaps @Carl could run the photos past Dr Maisey for an opinion. Don On it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 2 minutes ago, Carl said: On it Whoops! Just noticed I'm a bit late to the party... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Posted April 17, 2023 Share Posted April 17, 2023 I agree with @JimB88 on Orodus sp. Nice teeth! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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