Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) I bought this opal as a boulder wood fossil from Australia. I see that it has a few snails and possible a piece of a bone (the first image). it is a microscopic image. The length of the specimen is about 3 cm. Thank you! Edited March 30, 2023 by Vopros Removed the video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Very interesting, but I'm afraid I can't judge this from just a few photos. It's probably best to place this piece in the hands of an expert. 1 Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I am not convinced these are snails / gastropods. Could it be wood knots ?? 1 1 MotM August 2023 - Eclectic Collector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Boulder wood would appear to be only loosely related to actual fossil wood. I suppose one could as easily speculate that it includes bone or snails. I see no actual indications of any fossil here though. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) concur with previous opinions voiced here. the spirals don't somehow strike me as "molluscan" Edited March 30, 2023 by doushantuo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doushantuo Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) It occurred to me that the spirals might be the result of self-organization(caused by the existence of a chemical reaction front) which can occur in mixtures of diverse forms of silica. However they look to be too big for that @DPS Ammonite DPS has considerable mineralogical/petrographical NOUS,perhaps he has some interesting perspective on this Edited March 30, 2023 by doushantuo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Here is a microscopic images, which I believe shows more details. please do enlarge the image. I am not saying it is a complete snail but maybe it is a partly damaged snail’s skeleton. It is not only that it is a spiral in shape. It also has different colors. Edited March 30, 2023 by Vopros Added image Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Here is an article https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Barry-Roth/publication/229560102_Opportunistic_exploitation_of_dinosaur_dung_fossil_snails_in_coprolites_from_the_Upper_Cretaceous_Two_Medicine_Formation_of_Montana/links/5a1e04ac0f7e9b9d5effbf1a/Opportunistic-exploitation-of-dinosaur-dung-fossil-snails-in-coprolites-from-the-Upper-Cretaceous-Two-Medicine-Formation-of-Montana.pdf?origin=publication_detail Terrestrial snail taxa found within the herbivorous dinosaur coprolites. A. Megomphix sp. prepared out of a coprolite (MOR 1132/SS-93-2). Snail 2-2 is the same one shown in the upper left corner of B. B. Polygyrella sp. (snail 3-2 in coprolite MOR 1132/SS-93-3). C. Hendersonia sp. (snail E3-1) prepared out of coprolite MOR 1614/ES-95-3. D. Prograngerella sp. (snail 2-3) prepared out of coprolite MOR 1132/SS-93-2. This snail is shown in situ in B. Edited March 30, 2023 by Vopros Added the link to the article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwigia Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Interesting article, but exactly what does this have to do with your opalized wood? Greetings from the Lake of Constance. Roger http://www.steinkern.de/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ludwigia said: Interesting article, but exactly what does this have to do with your opalized wood? Snails! Wood should not have snails, but coprolites do. So maybe my opolized wood is an opolized Coprolite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 You might post some photos of the overall piece. The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockwood Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 20 minutes ago, Vopros said: Snails! Wood should not have snails, but coprolites do. So maybe my opolized wood is an opolized Coprolite. I'm afraid you may have only added a whole new layer of difficulty to an identification that was already difficult to prove. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilNerd Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I'm not seeing gastropods here, and if the spirals are gastropods, they seem too worn to say for sure. There are no diagnostic features left. Spirals are found everywhere in nature and are one of the most common patterns\shapes\curves. Just because there is a spiral doesn't mean it's a gastropod. Do an internet search for anything regarding the "Golden Ratio", "Golden Spiral", "Fibonacci Sequence", or a generic search of "Spirals in Nature" to see what I mean. 1 The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, FossilNerd said: I'm not seeing gastropods here, and if the spirals are gastropods, they seem too worn to say for sure. There are no diagnostic features left. Spirals are found everywhere in nature and are one of the most common patterns\shapes\curves. Just because there is a spiral doesn't mean it's a gastropod. Do an internet search for anything regarding the "Golden Ratio", "Golden Spiral", "Fibonacci Sequence", or a generic search of "Spirals in Nature" to see what I mean. Well, I did the search for “Spirals in nature”. Most images are of snails, some of galaxies, some of fern. Maybe it was a fern? However, if the specimen is a Coprolite or a gastric pallet, the snails or rather their remains might look differently, not like in nature. 1 hour ago, JohnJ said: You might post some photos of the overall piece. 1 hour ago, Rockwood said: I'm afraid you may have only added a whole new layer of difficulty to an identification that was already difficult to prove. Is not what makes it much more interesting? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 These spirals look almost more like the beginings of Beekite, being formed. 2 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilNerd Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, Vopros said: Well, I did the search for “Spirals in nature”. Most images are of snails, some of galaxies, some of fern. Maybe it was a fern? However, if the specimen is a Coprolite or a gastric pallet, the snails or rather their remains might look differently, not like in nature. Are coprolites found in the same formation that your opal specimen was found in? You posted a link to a paper regarding coprolites from the Two Medicines Formation of Montana USA, but your specimen is from Australia. The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FossilNerd Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, Fossildude19 said: These spirals look almost more like the beginings of Beekite, being formed. Hmmm... Now that you mention it Tim, I could get behind the idea of Beekite. The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. -Neil deGrasse Tyson Everyone you will ever meet knows something you don't. -Bill Nye (The Science Guy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, FossilNerd said: Are coprolites found in the same formation that your opal specimen was found in? You posted a link to a paper regarding coprolites from the Two Medicines Formation of Montana USA, but your specimen is from Australia. Here is a video of possible opal coprolites and gastric pallets. it is not the same location but it is in Australia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 29 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: These spirals look almost more like the beginings of Beekite, being formed. Well, there is a separation with different colors between the spirals. I do not see such separations in beekite. Besides, it appears beekites look more like concentric rings than like a spiral Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Another geologic possibility is Counter Septarian structures. 1 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnJ Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Why not more images? 47 minutes ago, Vopros said: Well, there is a separation with different colors between the spirals. I do not see such separations in beekite. Besides, it appears beekites look more like concentric rings than like a spiral This sounds like you really want it to be a coprolite, above all else. Why choose a coprolite instead of another hypothesis? Please correct me if I've misunderstood; I've had the locomotive in my train of thought derailed plenty of times by the introduction of competing facts. 1 The human mind has the ability to believe anything is true. - JJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Cole Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 @Vopros. This is a lovely small piece of opal with interesting details. We have none in my area, so I'm always a fan when opal posts come up and always looking to learn more. You mentioned that you purchased this as boulder wood opal. As I understand it, boulder wood opal generally refers to a host rock with opal seams. Did the seller mention any details about what they believed or represented the host rock to be? Could it be boulder ironstone? I know it's fun to consider coprolites, but when I'm looking for fossils with an eye toward the best ID, I try to rule out all the most common and likely explanations for a piece first before heading toward an explanation that is rarer and more difficult to prove, like a coprolite. That's why I think members are focusing directly on the swirled sections first. Also successfully determining that the swirls are shells might be a sign that the piece is a coprolite. Ruling out fossil material would be a good indication it's not. So either way, it's smart to focus on the "shells" first. For my part, there's something about the features of your swirls here that makes it look like a result of geologic erosion to me rather than a fossil shell. I think the red swirls may be iron vein deposits. It's hard to explain why, but I'll try. When I look closely at your first photos, I see flattened and jagged dark lines that are almost as big as, and sometimes bigger than, the white sections themselves. This differs significantly from the very thin, uniform, perfectly rounded lines in the examples of fossil shells that you posted above and the examples I'm used to seeing. To me, real shell material typically seems to hold up better than this I guess. I'm not saying it's impossible that it's an extremely badly worn shell. But to me, it looks far more like the suggestive shapes I've seen created by ironstone erosion. And it seems that boulder opal from ironstone commonly has strange shapes and suggestive swirls, often in larger form. I've attached an example of one in situ from the following page: https://www.opal.academy/home/2020/8/17/what-is-boulder-opal 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossildude19 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Is that a spiral shape I see there? 2 Tim - VETERAN SHALE SPLITTER VFOTM --- APRIL - 2015 __________________________________________________ "In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks." John Muir ~ ~ ~ ~ ><))))( *> About Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 hours ago, JohnJ said: Why not more images? This sounds like you really want it to be a coprolite, above all else. Not at all. I would have agreed with it being a gastric pallet :). On a more serious note… I simply would like to know what it really is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vopros Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 14 minutes ago, Fossildude19 said: Is that a spiral shape I see there? Bingo! This appear that it is what is shown on the image. Thank you, Tim and thank you, everybody! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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