Need Help Cleaning this Triceratops Humerus

[svcgoat]

I'm cleaning it and prepping but I think I'm scratching the bone a bit. Please give me some advice 

[svcgoat]

@Troodon

[Troodon]

@jpc is better to comment on this.  What are you using to clean the bone?

[svcgoat]

Dental picks, tooth brushes, some dullish exacto blades and a Dremel for the big clumps of sediment 

[svcgoat]

And water for the tooth brush 

[Troodon]

When working without air abrasives or a scribe I typically work in a small areas, soak it with a solvent to soften the matrix and use a rag & xacto knife/dental pick to remove what softens, very tedious and more prone to some damage.  Lets see what others say. 

[jpc]

2 hours ago, Troodon said:

@jpc is better to comment on this.  What are you using to clean the bone?

Thanks for mentioning me, but I am afraid that after doing this for 20 years with air abrasive and air scribes, I have a hard time imagining how to deal with big bone without the fancy tools.  Half the battle is removing the excess rock; the other half is to not let the thing fall apart.  I use primarily cyanoacrylates to hold bones together.  I would definitely drop some either CA or Paraloid B-72 into all those cracks I can see in this thing.  Paleobond glues come with detail tips for doing just this.  The thing to be careful of, esp with superglues is that you don't want to get too much on the surface.  This B-72 may work better, and any stuff that gets slopped onto the surface (and it will ) you can remove easily with acetone.  

 

 

[svcgoat]

Yeah I have all the paleobond my problem is removing thin layers of dirt that won't come off

[hadrosauridae]

Like JPC said, I cant imagine doing this prep without scribes, blaster and magnification.  

 

Your bone looks to be in rough shape, making the prep more difficult and definitely needing lots of glue/consolidate.

[svcgoat]

Guess I'll save up for a scribe

 

What's a blaster?

[svcgoat]

@hadrosauridae Oh like a sand blaster? Also whats the best budget scribe?

[hadrosauridae]

10 minutes ago, svcgoat said:

@hadrosauridae Oh like a sand blaster? Also whats the best budget scribe?

 

Blaster, as in soda blaster. Common term for micro air abrasion using soda bicarbonate.  Youre talking about stepping onto an expensive road once you want pneumatic tools.  It's hard to suggest "budget" tools, because you largely get what you pay for.  You'll definitely get conflicting opinions, but the cheapest into air pen I would suggest is a Chicago Pneumatic CP9160.  Along with that, you'll need a compressor that can put out at least 4cfm at 90psi or better, and should have at least a 20gal reserve tank so that your compressor isnt trying to run constantly.  That would be bad for the compressor besides annoying for you.  From the air compressor , you're going to need enough air hose to get from the compressor to your work area.  Don't go cheap.  I tried some harbor freight hose and it blew apart on me fairly quickly.  Then you need to plug that hose into a filter and regulator to control the pressure going to your tool.  If you want to move into air abrasion, then you also need a silica air drier, but its not truly needed for just air tools.  Youre probably going to spend $600 - $700 just for a basic scribe and everything to make it run.  If you want to micro blast, double that price.

 

Now, safety wise, you need safety glasses, hearing protection and a respirator at a minimum.  Ideally you should be doing powered prep inside a blast cabinet with a vacuum dust system, vented outside the room your in (and this is another chunk of $$$ plus design and install time).  

 

Lastly, I HIGHLY recommend that you get magnification.  Even just a lighted magnifier desk lamp is good enough.  Powered tools make work much faster, but you can damage or destroy a fossil much faster.  Watching your progress through a magnifier  lets you better see when you are getting too close to the fossil or the point when the matrix is just starting to come off.

[jpc]

1 hour ago, svcgoat said:

@hadrosauridae Oh like a sand blaster? Also whats the best budget scribe?

big budget   : )

[Alex S.]

I don't have much to add except for I'm in the stage you are right now I don't have an air abrader or a scribe. I use the dremel p290 that @mamlambo graciously reviewed on his YouTube channel for large bits with zoic paleotech tips. When I get close to the bone I use a mixture of dental pics and a toothbrush/ the scratch brushes that @cngodles reviewed on his thread which I've found to be very helpful.

I do all of this under a 10x magnifying lens that I got for relatively cheap off Amazon (around $60). It takes a lot of time i.e ive been working on a vertebra and a hadrosaur pubis for 5 months. But works gteat if you don't have the money/space to afford abraders and scribes. Conversely there are many extremely talented preparaters on the forum who might be willing to do it for you for a cost.

[svcgoat]

I think my problem is lack of magnification, but I also might sell some fossils that dont fit my collection anymore to buy prep equipment

[Ludwigia]

3 hours ago, svcgoat said:

I think my problem is lack of magnification, but I also might sell some fossils that dont fit my collection anymore to buy prep equipment

The colleagues forgot to mention the necessary air cleaner and dust collection system, which can also get quite expensive if you want a good one. Figure on at least $2000 for a half decent complete setup unless you're lucky enough to find some good second hand things. But you were already asking these types of questions last year weren't you?

[svcgoat]

I was asking last year but never got around to it. I found a second hand air compressor that I am going to take a look at. Still looking at other stuff

[Ptychodus04]

I'm with the others; I wouldn't dream of hitting this with hand tools. If you're dipping into the higher end of prep work, you can't forget dust collection and media containment. That will add some cost as well, even if you build your own blast cabinet (strongly advised). Either way, a cheap dust mitigation setup will run around $500. Magnification is a must. At the very least, you need 5x. That can be done with a lens light combo (around $100) but this is only good if you are doing scribe work only. Once you put your work into a box for abrasive work, you need a microscope... More added cost. A decent starter microscope will put you back around $800. A high end industrial microscope is more like $4k! 

 

Prep work requires a real commitment of finances to do it right. It's not for the faint of heart. 

[svcgoat]

Yeah I get that I am gonna start with a basic set up. for dust collection if I am doing work either outdoors or in an opened garage do I still need dust collection?

[jpc]

8 minutes ago, svcgoat said:

Yeah I get that I am gonna start with a basic set up. for dust collection if I am doing work either outdoors or in an opened garage do I still need dust collection?

Yes.  Or at least an industrial scale good dust mask... not what we were all wearing for covid.  

[svcgoat]

Just now, jpc said:

Yes.  Or at least an industrial scale good dust mask... not what we were all wearing for covid.  

Like medical grade N95 or a respirator? 

[jpc]

respiirator... along the lines of this

https://www.grainger.com/product/4GL92?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=CjwKCAjw3ueiBhBmEiwA4BhspNy-nU3Q40MU-JyaJKVQ4KLFRoSkf_Rti-6yPIqEfTnwxoTYazSA_xoCuH8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

[hadrosauridae]

22 hours ago, svcgoat said:

Yeah I get that I am gonna start with a basic set up. for dust collection if I am doing work either outdoors or in an opened garage do I still need dust collection?

 

You dont need dust collection if youre working outside, but a respirator is a must.  Breathing in rock dust is very bad, the effects are cumulative, and probably wont manifest for many years, but its already too late by then.

[Ptychodus04]

I use a P100 rated respirator. It is rated for protection against 99.9% of particles larger than .3 microns as well as VOCs and acid vapors. This is a must if you're working with acids for prep. It also is great for irritants like acetone when working with large quantities.

 

The worst part about prepping in a non-dedicated prep area is the dust that accumulates on everything. Even with a dust collection system, it gets everywhere. Without one, the dust is horrid. I have a 2 micron bag on my collector, in a separate room from my prep lab and I'm constantly dealing with dust. Mostly, this is from moving specimens in and out of the prep area, and larger particles that escape the blast box and migrate to the floor. My never ending list of lab upgrades includes ducting the exhaust from the collector directly through the floor of the lab, so the dirt below can get dusty with sub 2 micron grit rather than the storage room.